9 ms·

Very cool to get a peek behind the curtain! I've never been as productive and free as when I was mind-melded with FastTracker2 in the 90's For a peak couple y

Very cool to get a peek behind the curtain! I've never been as productive and free as when I was mind-melded with FastTracker2 in the 90's For a peak couple years I was generally writing 100s of (unrefined) 5-14 min tracks every month. Total unbound freedom to experiment at (close to) the speed of thought. For anyone who's not had the pleasure, It's like when you first get good at touch typing and find you can suddenly put down thoughts dozens of times faster than ever before - it frees up your self-expression and gets The Censor out of the way. Renoise is pretty cool, but I never fully glommed with it to the same level - might be time to try again! Recently started playing with a Polyend Tracker - pretty neat to feel those old synapses waking up. There's no way it can ever approach the speed of full keyboard-operated Tracker programs but the chance to revisit that beloved workflow in a solid and portable unit is so far really compelling.

dsclough 2y ago
Hope you managed to preserve these, I’d be keep to take a listen if they’re hosted online somewhere. I’ve been using renoise for 15 years on and off and while nowhere near 100s of tracks a month I fondly look back on the first year I used it similarly - that combination of youthful energy and tracker software is really something special. Renoise has come a long way and is a joy to use.
- pentaphobe 2y ago
  Alas most died on boxes of floppy discs which succumbed to a flood I recently discovered some 50 odd floppies which survived, and a couple old 5" hard drives - so I'm hopeful! I assume most of the data will be pretty patchy by now (if not totally gone) but I'm gonna try some forensic recovery If I manage I'll put the survivors somewhere for sure :) Anywhere I can check out your renoise stuff? Always keen to find new stuff to boggle at
  - avtar 2y ago
    Not the person you were replying to but here’s someone who still uses Renoise for releases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Robot_and_Proud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Robot_and_Proud
    - pentaphobe 2y ago
      Oh cool, hadn't heard of this person - thanks!
  - masfuerte 2y ago
    I had more than a hundred 5.25" floppies from the 1980s and I successfully recovered all but two of them thirty years later. It's definitely worth a try.
    - pentaphobe 2y ago
      That's super impressive, and very reassuring! What sort of memories did you find? (if you don't mind sharing) Also: any tips for recovery? I'm so far assuming I'll just get them nice and cool, then do multiple raw read passes so I can then choose the individual bits which are the same across most passes
      - masfuerte 2y ago
        Mostly it was loads of 6502 software I wrote when I was a kid, and also some high school projects I did. It was fun to look through it. The disks that worked just worked! I did try multiple passes on the two that didn't, but that didn't help.
        pentaphobe 2y ago
        Oh that woulda been a neat bit of time travelling, glad it worked out! I'm quietly hoping I end up finding a bunch of my old x86 assembler projects in these discs (well - excited and a little scared... perhaps better through the rosy glasses of nostalgia)
    - fzzzy 2y ago
      Same, I had several hundred 3.5" floppies from the 80s and they were all fine when I ripped them. I think double density might be more reliable than high density.
  - npunt 2y ago
    If you can get your hands on an Applesauce low level copier you may be able to recover them. https://applesaucefdc.com https://applesaucefdc.com
    - pentaphobe 2y ago
      Will keep an eye out! Hopefully they get their supply chain back - sucks when small (great) ventures like this get gutted by shortages
  - stuaxo 2y ago
    The greaseweazle is a very cost effective way of reading old floppies. There's a community on FB, you can occasionally but pre made drives, even without that, a board and a floppy drive is enough.
    - pentaphobe 2y ago
      Awesome, thanks - had no idea this existed (and great name)
Jeff_Brown 2y ago
For a fast keyboard-bssed workflow but also the ability to divide time however you like (I'm a big fan of strange swing fractions like 3/5 instead of 2/3), keep audio and midi side by side, and use whatever plugins you like, what's the nearest modern equivalent? Reaper?
- pentaphobe 2y ago
  Heck, I'm all about polyrhythm and polymetre Had no idea Reaper had this, thanks! What actually switched me over from trackers as the primary tool was this (discontinued) DAW called Orion, it had a piano roll for which you could provide custom tick rates, divisions, and highlighting rules for those divisions (ie. You could specify an arbitrary number of columns, then have bar lines every 11 beats and more subtle lines every 7 beats) You've made my day with this tidbit!
trilbyglens 2y ago
I've got a polyend and it's my favorite piece of gear in the last 10 years
- pentaphobe 2y ago
  It's so good (and sticky!) When mine arrived I fiddled for a minute, then wasn't so sure it was going to be a winner Then looked up and 6hrs had passed - absolute love
astral303 2y ago
I agree, very cool. I still miss the fast productive workflow of Jeskola Buzz from back in the day. Modular software synth + tracker with pattern sequencing. https://youtu.be/8J8i72a11W4?si=IRic-Z_YMinudnhn https://youtu.be/8J8i72a11W4?si=IRic-Z_YMinudnhn
- pentaphobe 2y ago
  Buzz tracker was so awesome I never got around to making full tunes in it, but I spent countless hours exploring the modular aspects It actually was what opened my eyes to things like PureData, Max/MSP, etc.. highly underrated program
gagagaga7 2y ago
One of the great parts was downloading ft2 songs from your local bbs and instantly see how a jungle or trance song is made, and then get to work sequencing your own amen breaks. If you havent tried udio yet, get on it. Mindblowing.
- bane 2y ago
  Yeah, the "open source" aspect of the old tracker scene is kind of on an entirely different level. Everything, and I mean everything, was there for you to look at, copy, remix, reuse, and repurpose. Like a certain sample? Copy it into your project. Wonder how a certain baseline looked? It's right there. Different musicians had entirely different looks to their musical organization, how they used tracks, what samples they relied on, how they expressed things. And you could see all of it just as they had laid it down. I'm not sure there are many other production environments where the published "document" has as much internal work product open for inspection as these old files offer. The other interesting part of it was that it was very much governed by a set of behavioral conventions at the time. No manifesto or political movement, no rules, just concepts of good behavior (give credit to your sample sources, don't plagiarize etc.) Other than that it was just young people doing basically whatever the hell they wanted without anybody to get in their way (for better or worse!)
  - pentaphobe 2y ago
    Totally - the "I like this, how does it work?" Factor is such an amazing learning tool (and a hell of a fringe community builder) Between mod files and small demoscene programs written in assembler there was so much incentive to improve your skills just in order to _understand_ how a thing worked. Then you're using that new understanding to make new things (rather than copying a set of rote "tricks")
bane 2y ago
> I was generally writing 100s of (unrefined) I was an ModEdit -> Scream Tracker 3 -> Impulse Tracker user myself, and that feeling of productivity that sample-based trackers create was astonishing. I almost always considered what I was doing was "sketching" out songs that I might somebody revisit to remaster or clean up with better instruments etc. (I never really did of course). I found I could crank a song out I was happy with in just a few hours, but it took a long time to pull together a sample library that I was happy with and well organized, and learn enough techniques to make what I wanted. But yeah, there was a period of a few years where tons of music I still listen to today literally came together in a couple of hours. I started slowing down as I tried to go for much more polish in my productions, writing out by hand effects that are done nowadays with VSTs (pitch stretches, digital multi-tap stuff, and lots of trying to make acoustic instruments sound like they were actually being played with volume and sample offsets). Then technology and life changed, IT sort of stopped working and I didn't like my other options for a while. Finally forced myself to get into the FastTracker sort of workflow years later with MadTracker2 and now Renoise. It's not something I really have time to dedicate to anymore, but I keep almost getting setup to do it. There's a mental block for me with VST/VSTis that I can't quite get through. Sure they sound "better" but they lack lots of the expressiveness and flexibility working in all samples used to offer.
- pentaphobe 2y ago
  > was "sketching" out songs that I might somebody revisit to remaster or clean up with better instruments Haha big time - I didn't really have the kit for such things, but I remember trying to "finish" a few tunes by rendering them out (not as stems) and then adding crap over the top in a non-real-time sample editor Whole thing of course became a mess of reverb :) > writing out by hand effects that are done nowadays with VSTs Yeah, VSTs made it so appealing and flashy Making manual flanges by copying a track and using sample offset on one was... not super convenient, but boy was it satisfying "real" effects opened up so many powerful sound design options that it was easy to forget about actually composing things :) And the amount of times I then wanted tracker level micro control you got with manual approach and just gave up after a bit..
- pentaphobe 2y ago
JoeyJoJoJr 2y ago
The Polyend Tracker is a cool piece of hardware. I’ve made a few decent tracks with it but I do find it tricky to get a nice sounding foundation. I’ve been eyeing of the Tracker + More recently I have been playing with the Dirtywave M8, but using the open source firmware on an RG351. Holy heck is it fun, and sounds absolutely amazing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tt95ZG6W8hM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tt95ZG6W8hM
- pentaphobe 2y ago
  This is mindblowingly cool Here comes another rabbit hole
serverlessmania 2y ago
That why I love the Syntakt!
prmoustache 2y ago
Same except I later switched to impulse tracker 2 as it was more keyboad driven. I think there is an open source clone called schismtracker[1]. I should try it. I made lots of tracks at the time, from the most mainstream to very experimental, those were good times. I also purchased a renoise license but it didn't click. But maybe that was just me being a dad and having much less free time, patience and possibility to isolate myself in a man cave. [1] https://schismtracker.org/ https://schismtracker.org/
- pentaphobe 2y ago
  The free time aspect is probably a big one - easy for nostalgia to say it's the tools that changed, but as an adult (or close approximation of one) getting a few hours of free exploration time is downright miraculous - can't possibly compete with a teenager hyperfocusing and losing time while they create for 24hrs solid
mycall 2y ago
If you are curious about a hardware tracker, check out Synthstrom Deluge. Once you learn the shortcuts, you can simply fly in execution.

dsclough 2y ago

Hope you managed to preserve these, I’d be keep to take a listen if they’re hosted online somewhere. I’ve been using renoise for 15 years on and off and while nowhere near 100s of tracks a month I fondly look back on the first year I used it similarly - that combination of youthful energy and tracker software is really something special. Renoise has come a long way and is a joy to use.

pentaphobe 2y ago
Alas most died on boxes of floppy discs which succumbed to a flood I recently discovered some 50 odd floppies which survived, and a couple old 5" hard drives - so I'm hopeful! I assume most of the data will be pretty patchy by now (if not totally gone) but I'm gonna try some forensic recovery If I manage I'll put the survivors somewhere for sure :) Anywhere I can check out your renoise stuff? Always keen to find new stuff to boggle at
- avtar 2y ago
  Not the person you were replying to but here’s someone who still uses Renoise for releases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Robot_and_Proud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Robot_and_Proud
  - pentaphobe 2y ago
    Oh cool, hadn't heard of this person - thanks!
- masfuerte 2y ago
  I had more than a hundred 5.25" floppies from the 1980s and I successfully recovered all but two of them thirty years later. It's definitely worth a try.
  - pentaphobe 2y ago
    That's super impressive, and very reassuring! What sort of memories did you find? (if you don't mind sharing) Also: any tips for recovery? I'm so far assuming I'll just get them nice and cool, then do multiple raw read passes so I can then choose the individual bits which are the same across most passes
    - masfuerte 2y ago
      Mostly it was loads of 6502 software I wrote when I was a kid, and also some high school projects I did. It was fun to look through it. The disks that worked just worked! I did try multiple passes on the two that didn't, but that didn't help.
      - pentaphobe 2y ago
        Oh that woulda been a neat bit of time travelling, glad it worked out! I'm quietly hoping I end up finding a bunch of my old x86 assembler projects in these discs (well - excited and a little scared... perhaps better through the rosy glasses of nostalgia)
  - fzzzy 2y ago
    Same, I had several hundred 3.5" floppies from the 80s and they were all fine when I ripped them. I think double density might be more reliable than high density.
- npunt 2y ago
  If you can get your hands on an Applesauce low level copier you may be able to recover them. https://applesaucefdc.com https://applesaucefdc.com
  - pentaphobe 2y ago
    Will keep an eye out! Hopefully they get their supply chain back - sucks when small (great) ventures like this get gutted by shortages
- stuaxo 2y ago
  The greaseweazle is a very cost effective way of reading old floppies. There's a community on FB, you can occasionally but pre made drives, even without that, a board and a floppy drive is enough.
  - pentaphobe 2y ago
    Awesome, thanks - had no idea this existed (and great name)

Jeff_Brown 2y ago

For a fast keyboard-bssed workflow but also the ability to divide time however you like (I'm a big fan of strange swing fractions like 3/5 instead of 2/3), keep audio and midi side by side, and use whatever plugins you like, what's the nearest modern equivalent? Reaper?

pentaphobe 2y ago
Heck, I'm all about polyrhythm and polymetre Had no idea Reaper had this, thanks! What actually switched me over from trackers as the primary tool was this (discontinued) DAW called Orion, it had a piano roll for which you could provide custom tick rates, divisions, and highlighting rules for those divisions (ie. You could specify an arbitrary number of columns, then have bar lines every 11 beats and more subtle lines every 7 beats) You've made my day with this tidbit!

trilbyglens 2y ago

I've got a polyend and it's my favorite piece of gear in the last 10 years

pentaphobe 2y ago
It's so good (and sticky!) When mine arrived I fiddled for a minute, then wasn't so sure it was going to be a winner Then looked up and 6hrs had passed - absolute love

astral303 2y ago

I agree, very cool. I still miss the fast productive workflow of Jeskola Buzz from back in the day. Modular software synth + tracker with pattern sequencing. https://youtu.be/8J8i72a11W4?si=IRic-Z_YMinudnhn https://youtu.be/8J8i72a11W4?si=IRic-Z_YMinudnhn

pentaphobe 2y ago
Buzz tracker was so awesome I never got around to making full tunes in it, but I spent countless hours exploring the modular aspects It actually was what opened my eyes to things like PureData, Max/MSP, etc.. highly underrated program

gagagaga7 2y ago

One of the great parts was downloading ft2 songs from your local bbs and instantly see how a jungle or trance song is made, and then get to work sequencing your own amen breaks. If you havent tried udio yet, get on it. Mindblowing.

bane 2y ago
Yeah, the "open source" aspect of the old tracker scene is kind of on an entirely different level. Everything, and I mean everything, was there for you to look at, copy, remix, reuse, and repurpose. Like a certain sample? Copy it into your project. Wonder how a certain baseline looked? It's right there. Different musicians had entirely different looks to their musical organization, how they used tracks, what samples they relied on, how they expressed things. And you could see all of it just as they had laid it down. I'm not sure there are many other production environments where the published "document" has as much internal work product open for inspection as these old files offer. The other interesting part of it was that it was very much governed by a set of behavioral conventions at the time. No manifesto or political movement, no rules, just concepts of good behavior (give credit to your sample sources, don't plagiarize etc.) Other than that it was just young people doing basically whatever the hell they wanted without anybody to get in their way (for better or worse!)
- pentaphobe 2y ago
  Totally - the "I like this, how does it work?" Factor is such an amazing learning tool (and a hell of a fringe community builder) Between mod files and small demoscene programs written in assembler there was so much incentive to improve your skills just in order to _understand_ how a thing worked. Then you're using that new understanding to make new things (rather than copying a set of rote "tricks")

bane 2y ago

> I was generally writing 100s of (unrefined) I was an ModEdit -> Scream Tracker 3 -> Impulse Tracker user myself, and that feeling of productivity that sample-based trackers create was astonishing. I almost always considered what I was doing was "sketching" out songs that I might somebody revisit to remaster or clean up with better instruments etc. (I never really did of course). I found I could crank a song out I was happy with in just a few hours, but it took a long time to pull together a sample library that I was happy with and well organized, and learn enough techniques to make what I wanted. But yeah, there was a period of a few years where tons of music I still listen to today literally came together in a couple of hours. I started slowing down as I tried to go for much more polish in my productions, writing out by hand effects that are done nowadays with VSTs (pitch stretches, digital multi-tap stuff, and lots of trying to make acoustic instruments sound like they were actually being played with volume and sample offsets). Then technology and life changed, IT sort of stopped working and I didn't like my other options for a while. Finally forced myself to get into the FastTracker sort of workflow years later with MadTracker2 and now Renoise. It's not something I really have time to dedicate to anymore, but I keep almost getting setup to do it. There's a mental block for me with VST/VSTis that I can't quite get through. Sure they sound "better" but they lack lots of the expressiveness and flexibility working in all samples used to offer.

pentaphobe 2y ago
> was "sketching" out songs that I might somebody revisit to remaster or clean up with better instruments Haha big time - I didn't really have the kit for such things, but I remember trying to "finish" a few tunes by rendering them out (not as stems) and then adding crap over the top in a non-real-time sample editor Whole thing of course became a mess of reverb :) > writing out by hand effects that are done nowadays with VSTs Yeah, VSTs made it so appealing and flashy Making manual flanges by copying a track and using sample offset on one was... not super convenient, but boy was it satisfying "real" effects opened up so many powerful sound design options that it was easy to forget about actually composing things :) And the amount of times I then wanted tracker level micro control you got with manual approach and just gave up after a bit..
pentaphobe 2y ago

JoeyJoJoJr 2y ago

The Polyend Tracker is a cool piece of hardware. I’ve made a few decent tracks with it but I do find it tricky to get a nice sounding foundation. I’ve been eyeing of the Tracker + More recently I have been playing with the Dirtywave M8, but using the open source firmware on an RG351. Holy heck is it fun, and sounds absolutely amazing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tt95ZG6W8hM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tt95ZG6W8hM

pentaphobe 2y ago
This is mindblowingly cool Here comes another rabbit hole

serverlessmania 2y ago

That why I love the Syntakt!

prmoustache 2y ago

Same except I later switched to impulse tracker 2 as it was more keyboad driven. I think there is an open source clone called schismtracker[1]. I should try it. I made lots of tracks at the time, from the most mainstream to very experimental, those were good times. I also purchased a renoise license but it didn't click. But maybe that was just me being a dad and having much less free time, patience and possibility to isolate myself in a man cave. [1] https://schismtracker.org/ https://schismtracker.org/

pentaphobe 2y ago
The free time aspect is probably a big one - easy for nostalgia to say it's the tools that changed, but as an adult (or close approximation of one) getting a few hours of free exploration time is downright miraculous - can't possibly compete with a teenager hyperfocusing and losing time while they create for 24hrs solid

mycall 2y ago

If you are curious about a hardware tracker, check out Synthstrom Deluge. Once you learn the shortcuts, you can simply fly in execution.