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>On the command line, the context is obvious. But CLI contexts are only obvious if the computer user is already familiar with the CLI which biases the learned

• tjoff 2y ago
  Context isn't the same as syntax? Yes, command line suffers from discoverability of which different applications (such as ln/mklink) may not be consistent. It is one of the bigger problems (imho) of the cli but it doesn't go against GPs point. The command line does have a learning curve (partly because of the above), but it is also quite rewarding.
  • sgc 2y ago
    When I start typing a formula in LibreOffice Calc, there is a popup showing possible matching functions, then when I choose the function, the popup shows the required syntax for the function and where I currently am within that syntax. A bash plugin that would do that would be an absolute game changer imho. The cli excels because it is extremely flexible, with far more options available than a set of buttons could ever display. But discoverability rounds down to 0, and there are footguns. It seems like spreadsheet software has found an almost drop in ui that would greatly enhance the cli.
    • thinkmassive 2y ago
      Tab completion can get you much of the way there.
      • sgc 2y ago
        it's not the same thing. Tab completion is useful and will complete something you know of. But it does not help you discover something you don't know, or provide you the syntax of the command after it is entered. The problem I would like to solve is discoverability. It's a 3 part problem: available commands, their options, their syntax. Part one would need to capture prompt input before enter was hit using solutions similar to those found at [1] perhaps the most useful but least complete one there is the one that uses apropos so something like `apropos -s 1 '' | sort | grep calc | less`. Similar solutions would be required for two and three. The roughest and easiest prototype would probably be two tabs in a split screen view, which would allow for selection of displayed matches to then modify the prompt creating those matches in the other tab. But Calc style popups directly attached to your cursor would be more useful still. [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/948008/linux-command-to-list-all-available-commands-and-aliases https://stackoverflow.com/questions/948008/linux-command-to-...
• fragmede 2y ago
  These days it’s easier to ask ChatGPT for the ffmpeg command line to do the thing you want, imo.
  • anthk 2y ago
    When some big shit hits the fan either with ChatGPT or internet connections, the only people able to fix systems without an internet connection will be us, the millenials. The rest will be prompty fired in the spot.
    • Gormo 2y ago
      I've found that as far as generational cohorts go, the most adept people are the late Gen-Xers and very early Millenials -- the people who grew up surrounded by C64s and Apple IIs and later had to fiddle with their config.sys and autoexec.bat files to get their game to fit into conventional memory. People whose first exposure to computing was in the mid-'90s or later seem to have less depth of understanding of the fundamentals and less experiencing tinkering and using process of elimination to solve problems. I started encountering people who didn't understand certain fundamental concepts and had no exposure to the CLI, but still had CS degrees and were applying for developer positions, about 15 years ago.
      • anthk 2y ago
        Yeah, these too. But lots of millenials learnt with RedHat, Debian and they knew a bit of DOS for some issues with Windows 98 and potential recovering from disasters. Still, far more able than the ChatGPT aided people blindly pasting commands into a shell being a recipe for a huge disaster.
    • fragmede 2y ago
      we had the same conversation when Gmail came out. a true test for a progammer is to see what they can do on a computer without the Internet.
      • anthk 2y ago