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But, but, UNIX command line tools are tools :D. If you enjoy learning new tools why don't you learn a set of tools that is applicable to any future task/program

But, but, UNIX command line tools are tools :D. If you enjoy learning new tools why don't you learn a set of tools that is applicable to any future task/programming language you will encounter?

eropple 14y ago
I don't enjoy learning new tools. I enjoy the user experience of using the right tool for the job more than I do using the same tools for every job. For example: I use MacVim and Textmate for text editing (writing markdown files, etc.) because they're good at it. And that's about where it ends, for me; I would under no circumstances use it to write more code, than a one-off Python script because I find it displeasing to do. I feel annoyed and angry because writing code in it is, for me, a slog; I consider ctags basically defective and they're not as good as, say, IDEA's Python (or Java, or Scala) support (or Visual Studio's for C# or VS's and Xcode's for C++). Similarly, and heading back towards the command-line realm: while this thread is full of people extolling the virtues of make (and my eyes made a credible attempt to roll out of my head at the idea, because make is one of the build tools I swear at most often at work...), it would be utterly stupid of me to use make for most of my personal projects because xbuild (for C#) and Maven (for Java) exist--but, oh the horror, they're specialized to their task, what if I want to flip waffles instead? And to that I respond, I don't care about using xbuild or Maven to flip waffles, because their job is not to flip waffles but instead to build C# and Java code. If I need to write a platform-independent build script for C or C++, sure, I'll use make (although today I'm more likely to use cmake), but that doesn't make it a wonderflonium-packed delight for everything else under the sun. I know this from personal experience; I deal with a make-powered Java app with makefiles best termed "monstrous" and if I could turn back the clock and make it a Maven application we'd have about a tenth of the headaches that we get from the current system. Because it's made for the job. I would rather adapt to tools better suited to a given task than use consistent tools across all problem sets. I don't find picking up new tools to be daunting or particularly time consuming (I picked up IDEA in about two hours, despite it being markedly different in behavior than previous IDEs I'd used, and I'm significantly more productive) and I don't find value in the "elegance" of bolting 30,000 things into vim to make it almost as good as my IDE was, for me, a decade ago. But what I have said above, if you listen to ajross, is head-scratching nonsense. Which is patronizing and insulting to people who've decided that their priorities aren't his. Such was the attitude to which I replied.
- pjmlp 14y ago
  Very well written post.

But, but, UNIX command line tools are tools :D. If you enjoy learning new tools why don't you learn a set of tools that is applicable to any future task/programming language you will encounter?

eropple 14y ago

I don't enjoy learning new tools. I enjoy the user experience of using the right tool for the job more than I do using the same tools for every job. For example: I use MacVim and Textmate for text editing (writing markdown files, etc.) because they're good at it. And that's about where it ends, for me; I would under no circumstances use it to write more code, than a one-off Python script because I find it displeasing to do. I feel annoyed and angry because writing code in it is, for me, a slog; I consider ctags basically defective and they're not as good as, say, IDEA's Python (or Java, or Scala) support (or Visual Studio's for C# or VS's and Xcode's for C++). Similarly, and heading back towards the command-line realm: while this thread is full of people extolling the virtues of make (and my eyes made a credible attempt to roll out of my head at the idea, because make is one of the build tools I swear at most often at work...), it would be utterly stupid of me to use make for most of my personal projects because xbuild (for C#) and Maven (for Java) exist--but, oh the horror, they're specialized to their task, what if I want to flip waffles instead? And to that I respond, I don't care about using xbuild or Maven to flip waffles, because their job is not to flip waffles but instead to build C# and Java code. If I need to write a platform-independent build script for C or C++, sure, I'll use make (although today I'm more likely to use cmake), but that doesn't make it a wonderflonium-packed delight for everything else under the sun. I know this from personal experience; I deal with a make-powered Java app with makefiles best termed "monstrous" and if I could turn back the clock and make it a Maven application we'd have about a tenth of the headaches that we get from the current system. Because it's made for the job. I would rather adapt to tools better suited to a given task than use consistent tools across all problem sets. I don't find picking up new tools to be daunting or particularly time consuming (I picked up IDEA in about two hours, despite it being markedly different in behavior than previous IDEs I'd used, and I'm significantly more productive) and I don't find value in the "elegance" of bolting 30,000 things into vim to make it almost as good as my IDE was, for me, a decade ago. But what I have said above, if you listen to ajross, is head-scratching nonsense. Which is patronizing and insulting to people who've decided that their priorities aren't his. Such was the attitude to which I replied.

pjmlp 14y ago
Very well written post.