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This essay by Neal Stephenson was first published in 1999. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Beginning..._Was_the_Command_Line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/

by mxwsn 2y ago

This essay by Neal Stephenson was first published in 1999. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Beginning..._Was_the_Command_Line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Beginning..._Was_the_... The analogy of OS as cars (Windows is a station wagon, Linux is a tank) is brought up in the recent Acquired episode on Microsoft, where Vista was a Dodge Viper but Windows 7 was a Toyota Camry, which is what users actually wanted.

hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
Windows XP would probably be an old 1970s Volvo that is still, somehow, running in all kinds of places otherwise forgotten by the waking world.
- homarp 2y ago
  like https://www.osnews.com/story/140301/no-southwest-airlines-is-not-still-using-windows-3-1/ https://www.osnews.com/story/140301/no-southwest-airlines-is... :)
- heraldgeezer 2y ago
  OS/2 also! :D
- johnohara 2y ago
  Mostly in Oregon, Northern CA, and parts of Washington. But parts are increasingly hard to find.
  - CRConrad 2y ago
    Mostly in all of Sweden, all of Finland, probably still quite a lot in Denmark, but perhaps not so many in Norway any more (since they are rapidly electrifying[1] the entire national car fleet). ___ [1]: Ironically, the heavy state subsidies for buying an electric car are, like anything else in Norway, financed by... Oil money.
GrumpyYoungMan 2y ago
And Neal Stephenson acknowledged it was obsolete in 2004: "I embraced OS X as soon as it was available and have never looked back. So a lot of 'In the beginning was the command line' is now obsolete. I keep meaning to update it, but if I'm honest with myself, I have to say this is unlikely." https://slashdot.org/story/04/10/20/1518217/neal-stephenson-responds-with-wit-and-humor https://slashdot.org/story/04/10/20/1518217/neal-stephenson-... But people still dredge this quarter century old apocrypha up and use it to pat themselves on the back for being Linux users. "I use a Hole Hawg! I drive a tank! I'm not like those other fellows because I'm a real hacker!"
- Phiwise_ 2y ago
  "Obsolete" is too strong a word, I think. OSX isn't an evolution of the Macintosh's operating system; That'd be Pink, which was even mentioned, and it crashed and burned. OSX was far closer to a Linux box and a Mac box on the same desk, therefore the only change really needed is to replace mentions of Unix or specifically Linux with Linux/OSX as far as the points of the piece are concerned. If Jobs had paid Torvalds to call OSX "Apple Linux" (Or maybe just called it Apple Berkeley Unix) for some reason this would be moot. I also primarily use Windows and don't have a dog in the fight you mentioned. I might actually dislike Linux more than OSX, though it has been quite a while since I've seriously used the one-button OS.
  - wpm 2y ago
    macOS shares zero lineage with Linux, which itself shares zero lineage with the UNIX derivatives. It would make zero sense for Apple to call macOS "Apple Linux" when it doesn't use the Linux kernel. Mac OS X is closest to a NeXTStep box with a coat of Mac-like polish on top. Even calling it "Apple Berkeley Unix" wouldn't make sense, because the XNU kernel is a mish mash of both BSD 4.3 and the Mach kernel. Linux and the UNIX derivates are not even cousins. Not related. Not even the same species. They just both look like crabs a la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation.
    - 13of40 2y ago
simonmysun 2y ago
I feel now the different way. Linux is never that much more powerful than other OS. It felt more like a tractor 10 years ago and now it is a good alternative to "Toyota Camry" with pretty good user experience. Meanwhile Windows has become those cars with two 27" screen as dashboard, which has bad user experience and full of advertisements.
davidgerard 2y ago
The actual comparison is that Vista was the Ford Edsel (hilarious and widely-mocked failure) but 7 was the Ford Comet (a huge hit). It's a close analogy, because the Comet was actually the next model of Edsel. They just changed the branding. Same with Vista to 7.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
justin66 2y ago
> recent Acquired episode on Microsoft, where Vista was a Dodge Viper but Windows 7 was a Toyota Camry, which is what users actually wanted. I assume if anyone associated with Microsoft compared Vista to anything other than an abject failure, it's because they are - at best - broken or defective people who were involved in the creation of Vista, and therefore not objective and not to be trusted in any way. Dodge Viper? WTF?
- throwawaydummy 2y ago
  Doge Vipers get a bad rep even in need for speed lol but idk enough about cars to know why
  - 00N8 2y ago
    The first generation or two of Vipers were very raw & unrefined, with ~400 horsepower, no stability control, no anti-lock brakes, minimal safety features, cheap & janky looking interiors, etc. It sounds great to me (aside from the lack of a/c & nice ergonomic interior), but it would be extremely easy to have a bad time if you're an average driver. I'm not sure about the analogy though, they might have been thinking of later Viper versions where the complaints would be more about cost, gas mileage, or general impracticality for daily use.
  - jholman 2y ago
    This might help? https://youtu.be/WdtK9Sj8ADw?list=PLoTU9_iCGa6go3vsnxlNn1wZSZo7jvGUG&t=142 https://youtu.be/WdtK9Sj8ADw?list=PLoTU9_iCGa6go3vsnxlNn1wZS...
throwawaydummy 2y ago
I didn’t know myself let alone computers but anyone know why Vista and Windows 8 got such bad reps?
- smackeyacky 2y ago
  They were given “tablet friendly” user interfaces that made navigation extremely difficult. But Microsoft never finished the job so you’d try to find something in the stupid sliding screen interface only to be thrown into a windows 3.1 era control panel. Windows server of that era was even worse, as mostly you administered using RDP but it never played nice with the “hover here to bring up the whole screen menu” required to drive it. Underneath it was just Windows, but the interface ruined it
- theandrewbailey 2y ago
  I'm one of the few people who thought Vista was fine. It mostly got a bad rap because of bad drivers and high system requirements.
- thfuran 2y ago
  Vista significantly changed the security model, introducing UAC and requiring driver signing. This caused a bunch of turmoil. It also had much higher system requirements than xp for decent performance, meaning that it ran at least a bit shit on many people's machines when it was new, and that did it no favors.
bitwize 2y ago
The way I explained my continued loathing of Microsoft to a friend was that back in the day, it was like having two choices of car: a Ford Pinto, or a pickup truck. Not everybody needed the heavy transport capabilities of the pickup, but their only choice if they didn't want the added bulk and fuel consumption was the Pinto, which had dangerous failure modes. Later, the Pinto would be withdrawn and replaced with a Ford Taurus, a serviceable but not particularly fun or performant vehicle which worked fine usually, but was based on a transaxle design, so when it did break you had to dismantle the entire front end of the vehicle in order to repair it. And now imagine that there were roads you couldn't drive on and places you couldn't go unless you had one of these three vehicles, simply due to Ford's market pressure on infrastructure planners, not for any good reason; and besides, people mocked you for wanting something else.

by mxwsn 2y ago

hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago

Windows XP would probably be an old 1970s Volvo that is still, somehow, running in all kinds of places otherwise forgotten by the waking world.

homarp 2y ago
like https://www.osnews.com/story/140301/no-southwest-airlines-is-not-still-using-windows-3-1/ https://www.osnews.com/story/140301/no-southwest-airlines-is... :)
heraldgeezer 2y ago
OS/2 also! :D
johnohara 2y ago
Mostly in Oregon, Northern CA, and parts of Washington. But parts are increasingly hard to find.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  Mostly in all of Sweden, all of Finland, probably still quite a lot in Denmark, but perhaps not so many in Norway any more (since they are rapidly electrifying[1] the entire national car fleet). ___ [1]: Ironically, the heavy state subsidies for buying an electric car are, like anything else in Norway, financed by... Oil money.

GrumpyYoungMan 2y ago

And Neal Stephenson acknowledged it was obsolete in 2004: "I embraced OS X as soon as it was available and have never looked back. So a lot of 'In the beginning was the command line' is now obsolete. I keep meaning to update it, but if I'm honest with myself, I have to say this is unlikely." https://slashdot.org/story/04/10/20/1518217/neal-stephenson-responds-with-wit-and-humor https://slashdot.org/story/04/10/20/1518217/neal-stephenson-... But people still dredge this quarter century old apocrypha up and use it to pat themselves on the back for being Linux users. "I use a Hole Hawg! I drive a tank! I'm not like those other fellows because I'm a real hacker!"

Phiwise_ 2y ago
"Obsolete" is too strong a word, I think. OSX isn't an evolution of the Macintosh's operating system; That'd be Pink, which was even mentioned, and it crashed and burned. OSX was far closer to a Linux box and a Mac box on the same desk, therefore the only change really needed is to replace mentions of Unix or specifically Linux with Linux/OSX as far as the points of the piece are concerned. If Jobs had paid Torvalds to call OSX "Apple Linux" (Or maybe just called it Apple Berkeley Unix) for some reason this would be moot. I also primarily use Windows and don't have a dog in the fight you mentioned. I might actually dislike Linux more than OSX, though it has been quite a while since I've seriously used the one-button OS.
- wpm 2y ago
  macOS shares zero lineage with Linux, which itself shares zero lineage with the UNIX derivatives. It would make zero sense for Apple to call macOS "Apple Linux" when it doesn't use the Linux kernel. Mac OS X is closest to a NeXTStep box with a coat of Mac-like polish on top. Even calling it "Apple Berkeley Unix" wouldn't make sense, because the XNU kernel is a mish mash of both BSD 4.3 and the Mach kernel. Linux and the UNIX derivates are not even cousins. Not related. Not even the same species. They just both look like crabs a la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation.
  - 13of40 2y ago

simonmysun 2y ago

I feel now the different way. Linux is never that much more powerful than other OS. It felt more like a tractor 10 years ago and now it is a good alternative to "Toyota Camry" with pretty good user experience. Meanwhile Windows has become those cars with two 27" screen as dashboard, which has bad user experience and full of advertisements.

davidgerard 2y ago

The actual comparison is that Vista was the Ford Edsel (hilarious and widely-mocked failure) but 7 was the Ford Comet (a huge hit). It's a close analogy, because the Comet was actually the next model of Edsel. They just changed the branding. Same with Vista to 7.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

justin66 2y ago

> recent Acquired episode on Microsoft, where Vista was a Dodge Viper but Windows 7 was a Toyota Camry, which is what users actually wanted. I assume if anyone associated with Microsoft compared Vista to anything other than an abject failure, it's because they are - at best - broken or defective people who were involved in the creation of Vista, and therefore not objective and not to be trusted in any way. Dodge Viper? WTF?

throwawaydummy 2y ago
Doge Vipers get a bad rep even in need for speed lol but idk enough about cars to know why
- 00N8 2y ago
  The first generation or two of Vipers were very raw & unrefined, with ~400 horsepower, no stability control, no anti-lock brakes, minimal safety features, cheap & janky looking interiors, etc. It sounds great to me (aside from the lack of a/c & nice ergonomic interior), but it would be extremely easy to have a bad time if you're an average driver. I'm not sure about the analogy though, they might have been thinking of later Viper versions where the complaints would be more about cost, gas mileage, or general impracticality for daily use.
- jholman 2y ago
  This might help? https://youtu.be/WdtK9Sj8ADw?list=PLoTU9_iCGa6go3vsnxlNn1wZSZo7jvGUG&t=142 https://youtu.be/WdtK9Sj8ADw?list=PLoTU9_iCGa6go3vsnxlNn1wZS...

throwawaydummy 2y ago

I didn’t know myself let alone computers but anyone know why Vista and Windows 8 got such bad reps?

smackeyacky 2y ago
They were given “tablet friendly” user interfaces that made navigation extremely difficult. But Microsoft never finished the job so you’d try to find something in the stupid sliding screen interface only to be thrown into a windows 3.1 era control panel. Windows server of that era was even worse, as mostly you administered using RDP but it never played nice with the “hover here to bring up the whole screen menu” required to drive it. Underneath it was just Windows, but the interface ruined it
theandrewbailey 2y ago
I'm one of the few people who thought Vista was fine. It mostly got a bad rap because of bad drivers and high system requirements.
thfuran 2y ago
Vista significantly changed the security model, introducing UAC and requiring driver signing. This caused a bunch of turmoil. It also had much higher system requirements than xp for decent performance, meaning that it ran at least a bit shit on many people's machines when it was new, and that did it no favors.

bitwize 2y ago

The way I explained my continued loathing of Microsoft to a friend was that back in the day, it was like having two choices of car: a Ford Pinto, or a pickup truck. Not everybody needed the heavy transport capabilities of the pickup, but their only choice if they didn't want the added bulk and fuel consumption was the Pinto, which had dangerous failure modes. Later, the Pinto would be withdrawn and replaced with a Ford Taurus, a serviceable but not particularly fun or performant vehicle which worked fine usually, but was based on a transaxle design, so when it did break you had to dismantle the entire front end of the vehicle in order to repair it. And now imagine that there were roads you couldn't drive on and places you couldn't go unless you had one of these three vehicles, simply due to Ford's market pressure on infrastructure planners, not for any good reason; and besides, people mocked you for wanting something else.