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> Nokia was blown out of the market by superior Chinese manufacturing and US design [0]. No, Nokia was blown out of the market via the exclusive deal with Micr

> Nokia was blown out of the market by superior Chinese manufacturing and US design [0]. No, Nokia was blown out of the market via the exclusive deal with Microsoft, which in turn made the dumbest management decisions ever. Nokia bled under the horrible management of Steve Ballmer and their own ignorance with regards to Android. They also proved later on that you don't need any expertise to produce decent Android phones, as HMD global used their name as a brand and has been thriving. To add to this: It's not that hard to develop a mobile operating system that's on par or better than Android, despite what Google might want you to think.

pragmaticd 2y ago
Exactly. Part of Nokia still lives on in Jolla and they have a modest team.
- awesomeMilou 2y ago
  I owned a Jolla phone and it was the sickest thing ever, even though I was a Linux noob. I honestly think Android was a net loss for mobile computing, both in terms of platform and performance.
roenxi 2y ago
Pretty telling though. When dijit was talking about Tencent, Microsoft or Google a few comments ago they were being presented as these huge incumbent behemoths that scoop up everything in their path. And, fair enough, they are. But when Nokia starts with an overwhelming incumbents advantage, their board doesn't even have confidence that Nokia's internal talent pool can lead them to make a mobile phone! They couldn't defend themselves from multiple companies in completely different industries with no prior competence in the mobile phone world. That was an A-Team EU hardware company's performance. The issue here isn't company size, it is something specific to the EU. I'm not sure what, but since it is a geographic thing I'd start with regulation and branch out from there.
- awesomeMilou 2y ago
  > their board doesn't even have confidence that Nokia's internal talent pool can lead them to make a mobile phone! I'm sorry but it's honestly pointless discussing this as no one in this thread wants to spend even an ounce of time into researching this. Reading your comment in it's entirety tells me you weren't there when stuff was happening. > That was an A-Team EU hardware company's performance. For the record, the Lumia phones had A-Tier hardware in them. They boasted the best low light cameras on phones for a while around ~2012. Nokia made the Lumia phones, MS provided the operating system. Previously, Nokia had their own Linux based OS, called Maemo, which was originally supposed to run on what became Lumia. It later formed into Sailfish OS, which had it's own device family. The issue wasn't the hardware platform itself, it was the fact that Nokia decided to go with the MS ecosystem, instead of Android. And honestly, I don't even think that was a bad move. I am at a loss trying to figure out how device manufacturers actually make profits based on what has turned into extremely restrictive licensing deals with Google in order to get GAPPS on their phones.
  - mafuku 2y ago
    I used to have a Lumia phone as a teenager and it was very nice. I loved how curved and rounded it was, made it look very sleek and sci-fi, and it felt really good in the hand. Even the panel-style home screen was considered to be pretty cool. I remember at the time that, as you say, the main criticism was that it was isolated from the main android/iOS app store ecosystem and there were hardly any apps for it.

pragmaticd 2y ago

Exactly. Part of Nokia still lives on in Jolla and they have a modest team.

awesomeMilou 2y ago
I owned a Jolla phone and it was the sickest thing ever, even though I was a Linux noob. I honestly think Android was a net loss for mobile computing, both in terms of platform and performance.

roenxi 2y ago

Pretty telling though. When dijit was talking about Tencent, Microsoft or Google a few comments ago they were being presented as these huge incumbent behemoths that scoop up everything in their path. And, fair enough, they are. But when Nokia starts with an overwhelming incumbents advantage, their board doesn't even have confidence that Nokia's internal talent pool can lead them to make a mobile phone! They couldn't defend themselves from multiple companies in completely different industries with no prior competence in the mobile phone world. That was an A-Team EU hardware company's performance. The issue here isn't company size, it is something specific to the EU. I'm not sure what, but since it is a geographic thing I'd start with regulation and branch out from there.

awesomeMilou 2y ago
> their board doesn't even have confidence that Nokia's internal talent pool can lead them to make a mobile phone! I'm sorry but it's honestly pointless discussing this as no one in this thread wants to spend even an ounce of time into researching this. Reading your comment in it's entirety tells me you weren't there when stuff was happening. > That was an A-Team EU hardware company's performance. For the record, the Lumia phones had A-Tier hardware in them. They boasted the best low light cameras on phones for a while around ~2012. Nokia made the Lumia phones, MS provided the operating system. Previously, Nokia had their own Linux based OS, called Maemo, which was originally supposed to run on what became Lumia. It later formed into Sailfish OS, which had it's own device family. The issue wasn't the hardware platform itself, it was the fact that Nokia decided to go with the MS ecosystem, instead of Android. And honestly, I don't even think that was a bad move. I am at a loss trying to figure out how device manufacturers actually make profits based on what has turned into extremely restrictive licensing deals with Google in order to get GAPPS on their phones.
- mafuku 2y ago
  I used to have a Lumia phone as a teenager and it was very nice. I loved how curved and rounded it was, made it look very sleek and sci-fi, and it felt really good in the hand. Even the panel-style home screen was considered to be pretty cool. I remember at the time that, as you say, the main criticism was that it was isolated from the main android/iOS app store ecosystem and there were hardly any apps for it.