5 ms·

I’m curious, if your phone is locked, were they ever able to demand that you unlock it so they could conduct a search?

uoaei 2y ago
They can demand, and you can refuse. However if you have Face ID or other biometric measures, they can (legally) force your finger onto the sensor or hold the phone up to your face to unlock it for their needs. Passwords are personal data, faces and fingerprints are not, apparently.
- dcdc123 2y ago
  Five taps of power button on iPhone disables biometrics until you enter the passcode. I always do this before going through airport security
  - beeslol 2y ago
    Android has something similar - in the power menu [1] there's a "Lockdown" button which will lock your phone, disable biometrics, and disable showing notifications until you unlock with password. Depending on your version and flavour of Android you may need to enable this "Show Lockdown Option" in your settings. [1] Opening this varies - my pixel is power + vol up, some phones are hold power, etc.
  - nehal3m 2y ago
    Just holding it down until it shows you the power off slider does the same. Easier to do in a panic.
- eurleif 2y ago
  >Passwords are personal data, faces and fingerprints are not, apparently. The rulings you're referring to are based on the Fifth Amendment. They don't involve the privacy rights of the Fourth Amendment. Rather, they treat the act of revealing your password as testimonial: if you say "my password is hunter2", you are testifying; and the Fifth Amendment says you cannot be forced to testify against yourself; so you cannot be forced to reveal your password. You can scan your fingerprint or face without speaking a word, so those acts are not testimonial, and forcing you to do them would not implicate the Fifth Amendment. Similarly, brute forcing your password, or searching for it written down in your notes, would not implicate the Fifth Amendment.
  - withinboredom 2y ago
    That’s like saying if my house is protected by a passcode lock, the cops can just break down my door and walk in. Sure, they can, but there are clear rules of when they can enter and search my property without my consent. So, sure, they can enter my phone, but that doesn’t mean they have the right to in the first place.
    - amluto 2y ago
      The comment you’re replying to specifically discusses Fifth Amendment rights. The police would not generally be violating those rights by entering your house without a warrant. That would be a Fourth Amendment issue. (One might argue that breaking your door without due process of law would be a Fifth Amendment violation. I have no idea what existing precedent says about that.)
- AndroTux 2y ago
  For Face ID, just close your eyes.
  - withinboredom 2y ago
    There’s no delay. If it even sees you as you are closing your eyes, it unlocks. My son and I just tested this.
    - DonHopkins 2y ago
      Then train it to recognize your face with your eyes closed, or winking, then keep both your eyes opened! ;)
    - rythmshifter 2y ago
      However, if you never actually look at the phone it will not unlock it. It requires your "attention" to unlock. I believe this is a togglable setting.
dheera 2y ago
Use the most obscure fork of Android possible, learn the most obscure language in Africa and set your UI to that language, ...
- herbst 2y ago
  They just have to change the language back to English What's the alternative? The guy paid $1000+ just to get there and spent 3+ hours at customs. Refusing is basically saying "ok I fly back home"
  - dheera 2y ago
    remove English from the OS
    - herbst 2y ago
      People that travel to the US usually want to actually get into the US. Why would they make it hard on themself?
      - dheera 2y ago
        People want to get into the US without having their personal thoughts searched. US citizens also have the right to enter the US without personal thoughts searched.
        herbst 2y ago
        Nobody I know didn't expect to get searched deeper than they are comfortable with when they planned to enter the US for holidays or travel. The US is known for giving a fuck about privacy and personal borders. That's literally the one thing they are known for
- fsflover 2y ago
  > Use the most obscure fork of Android possible Why Android? Try GNU/Linux with SXMo instead: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39155103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39155103

They can demand, and you can refuse. However if you have Face ID or other biometric measures, they can (legally) force your finger onto the sensor or hold the phone up to your face to unlock it for their needs. Passwords are personal data, faces and fingerprints are not, apparently.

dcdc123 2y ago
Five taps of power button on iPhone disables biometrics until you enter the passcode. I always do this before going through airport security
- beeslol 2y ago
  Android has something similar - in the power menu [1] there's a "Lockdown" button which will lock your phone, disable biometrics, and disable showing notifications until you unlock with password. Depending on your version and flavour of Android you may need to enable this "Show Lockdown Option" in your settings. [1] Opening this varies - my pixel is power + vol up, some phones are hold power, etc.
- nehal3m 2y ago
  Just holding it down until it shows you the power off slider does the same. Easier to do in a panic.
eurleif 2y ago
>Passwords are personal data, faces and fingerprints are not, apparently. The rulings you're referring to are based on the Fifth Amendment. They don't involve the privacy rights of the Fourth Amendment. Rather, they treat the act of revealing your password as testimonial: if you say "my password is hunter2", you are testifying; and the Fifth Amendment says you cannot be forced to testify against yourself; so you cannot be forced to reveal your password. You can scan your fingerprint or face without speaking a word, so those acts are not testimonial, and forcing you to do them would not implicate the Fifth Amendment. Similarly, brute forcing your password, or searching for it written down in your notes, would not implicate the Fifth Amendment.
- withinboredom 2y ago
  That’s like saying if my house is protected by a passcode lock, the cops can just break down my door and walk in. Sure, they can, but there are clear rules of when they can enter and search my property without my consent. So, sure, they can enter my phone, but that doesn’t mean they have the right to in the first place.
  - amluto 2y ago
    The comment you’re replying to specifically discusses Fifth Amendment rights. The police would not generally be violating those rights by entering your house without a warrant. That would be a Fourth Amendment issue. (One might argue that breaking your door without due process of law would be a Fifth Amendment violation. I have no idea what existing precedent says about that.)
AndroTux 2y ago
For Face ID, just close your eyes.
- withinboredom 2y ago
  There’s no delay. If it even sees you as you are closing your eyes, it unlocks. My son and I just tested this.
  - DonHopkins 2y ago
    Then train it to recognize your face with your eyes closed, or winking, then keep both your eyes opened! ;)
  - rythmshifter 2y ago
    However, if you never actually look at the phone it will not unlock it. It requires your "attention" to unlock. I believe this is a togglable setting.

dheera 2y ago

Use the most obscure fork of Android possible, learn the most obscure language in Africa and set your UI to that language, ...

herbst 2y ago
They just have to change the language back to English What's the alternative? The guy paid $1000+ just to get there and spent 3+ hours at customs. Refusing is basically saying "ok I fly back home"
- dheera 2y ago
  remove English from the OS
  - herbst 2y ago
    People that travel to the US usually want to actually get into the US. Why would they make it hard on themself?
    - dheera 2y ago
      People want to get into the US without having their personal thoughts searched. US citizens also have the right to enter the US without personal thoughts searched.
      - herbst 2y ago
        Nobody I know didn't expect to get searched deeper than they are comfortable with when they planned to enter the US for holidays or travel. The US is known for giving a fuck about privacy and personal borders. That's literally the one thing they are known for
fsflover 2y ago
> Use the most obscure fork of Android possible Why Android? Try GNU/Linux with SXMo instead: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39155103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39155103