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> what you guys have right now is good for people and their lives Let's see how long it lasts, Europe's economy is terrible and their people are significantly

> what you guys have right now is good for people and their lives Let's see how long it lasts, Europe's economy is terrible and their people are significantly poorer. I don't think their current welfare state is sustainable without tax revenue from large businesses. Eventually every European citizen will be a waiter, hotel staff, or a tour guide.

kazen44 2y ago
how is europe's economy terrible? by what metric? considering that the EU still has a very large part of the global economy, especially compared to its population and size. Also, the tech industry is not the only part of the economy. large parts of the EU are absolutely massive in terms of industrial machinery and scientific companies. People on HN always seem to forget that a lot of money can be made by making something very high end which solves a specific problem, no matter if it is sexy or not.
- hnhg 2y ago
  Maybe terrible is too strong but the trajectory is not great: https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/07/25/germanys-business-climate-worsens-in-july-european-stocks-plunge https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/07/25/germanys-busine...?
  - kazen44 2y ago
    well, lets not forget what happened since the start of 2022... the invasion of ukraine has a major impact on the european economy, but that has very little to do with the article in question...
- treprinum 2y ago
  40 years ago Europe (without former Warsaw Pact countries) accounted for 25% of global trade. These days it's ~12% and dropping. Since 2008 there is no meaningful GDP growth (1-2%) whereas US and China exploded in that time. India is on track to surpass EU by 2050. All that will be left is a large open-air museum.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    India, a country with 1.4 billion people and growing, overtaking the EU with 0.44 billion people in 26 years (!) isn’t the flex you think it is.
    - treprinum 2y ago
      It's not about flexing, it's about the diminishing importance of EU in the world. It doesn't matter if EU still has a better GDP PPP if India ends up with a bigger GDP overall as you are only as important as you have in the bank internationally. Competing for resources would then flip in favor of India; EU burning bridges with Russia sending it to China's orbit will likely accelerate the process as well.
      - echoangle 2y ago
        Of course the influence of the EU will diminish over time, because they are currently very strong. It would be very weird if the Asian countries wouldn’t catch up, which automatically lets the EU have a smaller proportion of global trade. Guess what, at some point, India and china will also overtake the US. Is that shocking to you? That’s just what happens when absolutely massive countries catch up to everyone else.
        treprinum 2y ago
        US has fewer inhabitants than EU (342M vs 449M) yet keeps up with China economically in absolute terms.
        echoangle 2y ago
        And you think they will manage to keep up in the future? You don’t think china will be 1.5x the US in 26 years?
        treprinum 2y ago
        The point is that since 2008 US was able to keep up with rapidly expanding China whereas EU stood still. We are discussing future of EU here.
skywhopper 2y ago
You have a weird definition of “terrible”. How much EU taxes are being paid by Apple, Meta, Google, etc?
- pelorat 2y ago
  We pay more than enough taxes in Europe.
  - kwhitefoot 2y ago
    We do, but Apple, Meta, and Google don't.
  - failuser 2y ago
    I thought that tech companies working in Europe take advantage of Irish/Dutch laws and skip taxes almost entirely. Is that outdated?
Moldoteck 2y ago
Poorer is debatable. Ppl in eu usually can afford going to a hospital or going to school/uni- for us it isn't that straightforward And saying eventually everyone will cater to tourism is peak us ignorance. The tourism sector in eu is fairly small, even in the (over) touristic italy. Just the fact you mentioned this leads me to think you are an ignorant american that likes how people suffer from being poor and being exploited by big corpos...

kazen44 2y ago

how is europe's economy terrible? by what metric? considering that the EU still has a very large part of the global economy, especially compared to its population and size. Also, the tech industry is not the only part of the economy. large parts of the EU are absolutely massive in terms of industrial machinery and scientific companies. People on HN always seem to forget that a lot of money can be made by making something very high end which solves a specific problem, no matter if it is sexy or not.

hnhg 2y ago
Maybe terrible is too strong but the trajectory is not great: https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/07/25/germanys-business-climate-worsens-in-july-european-stocks-plunge https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/07/25/germanys-busine...?
- kazen44 2y ago
  well, lets not forget what happened since the start of 2022... the invasion of ukraine has a major impact on the european economy, but that has very little to do with the article in question...
treprinum 2y ago
40 years ago Europe (without former Warsaw Pact countries) accounted for 25% of global trade. These days it's ~12% and dropping. Since 2008 there is no meaningful GDP growth (1-2%) whereas US and China exploded in that time. India is on track to surpass EU by 2050. All that will be left is a large open-air museum.
- echoangle 2y ago
  India, a country with 1.4 billion people and growing, overtaking the EU with 0.44 billion people in 26 years (!) isn’t the flex you think it is.
  - treprinum 2y ago
    It's not about flexing, it's about the diminishing importance of EU in the world. It doesn't matter if EU still has a better GDP PPP if India ends up with a bigger GDP overall as you are only as important as you have in the bank internationally. Competing for resources would then flip in favor of India; EU burning bridges with Russia sending it to China's orbit will likely accelerate the process as well.
    - echoangle 2y ago
      Of course the influence of the EU will diminish over time, because they are currently very strong. It would be very weird if the Asian countries wouldn’t catch up, which automatically lets the EU have a smaller proportion of global trade. Guess what, at some point, India and china will also overtake the US. Is that shocking to you? That’s just what happens when absolutely massive countries catch up to everyone else.
      - treprinum 2y ago
        US has fewer inhabitants than EU (342M vs 449M) yet keeps up with China economically in absolute terms.
        echoangle 2y ago
        And you think they will manage to keep up in the future? You don’t think china will be 1.5x the US in 26 years?
        treprinum 2y ago
        The point is that since 2008 US was able to keep up with rapidly expanding China whereas EU stood still. We are discussing future of EU here.

skywhopper 2y ago

You have a weird definition of “terrible”. How much EU taxes are being paid by Apple, Meta, Google, etc?

pelorat 2y ago
We pay more than enough taxes in Europe.
- kwhitefoot 2y ago
  We do, but Apple, Meta, and Google don't.
- failuser 2y ago
  I thought that tech companies working in Europe take advantage of Irish/Dutch laws and skip taxes almost entirely. Is that outdated?

Moldoteck 2y ago

Poorer is debatable. Ppl in eu usually can afford going to a hospital or going to school/uni- for us it isn't that straightforward And saying eventually everyone will cater to tourism is peak us ignorance. The tourism sector in eu is fairly small, even in the (over) touristic italy. Just the fact you mentioned this leads me to think you are an ignorant american that likes how people suffer from being poor and being exploited by big corpos...