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Then it sounds like what you’re saying is there’s a financial market for users like you and I who would rather pay a subscription fee than our data be sold? Or

Then it sounds like what you’re saying is there’s a financial market for users like you and I who would rather pay a subscription fee than our data be sold? Or an ad supported tier? The problem with your argument is you’re removing any revenue source the company has. If you won’t pay a subscription, and you block all the ads, and they can’t sell data, how do they make money? Money is required to run the service, whether that leaves a sour taste or not. If you think you have a financially viable model that protects data, then you should start a company on that premise, I’d genuinely love to see someone make it work.

Sakos 2y ago
> Then it sounds like what you’re saying is there’s a financial market for users like you and I who would rather pay a subscription fee than our data be sold? Or an ad supported tier? And the vast majority of users don't deserve privacy? Nah, that's a ridiculous argument to make and I'm not going to waste my time with this line of discussion. You're not making a good faith argument. I'm not playing your stupid games.
- threatofrain 2y ago
  There's plenty of interpretative room to view the above comment as honest discussion as opposed to dishonesty ("bad faith"). But now you've burned the bridge so hard why do you even bother making an argument? Just to get the last word? One cannot unring a bell.
- multimoon 2y ago
  I don’t think there’s need for anger, I’m not “playing games”. All I’m doing is pointing out that there has to be a source of revenue to run any given service - and if you remove all the sources of revenue then the service ceases to exist. Right now the only viable sources of revenue at that kind of online service scale is subscriptions, ads, or data collection and sale. If there’s a method I’m not thinking of I’m genuinely curious what the financial model would look like.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- phyzix5761 2y ago
  No one is forcing you to use these services. I care very much about my privacy and only use a handful of services that respect that privacy. Stop giving your money to companies you disagree with and stop forcing your morality on others. Because all that does is set the precedent for someone to force their morality on you even if you disagree with it. That's how we get anti gay, xenophobic, extremists forcing their moral views on others. Let people decide what is right for them.
abdullahkhalids 2y ago
Protection of the water we drink is a legal right. Which is why companies cannot dump waste into the river, no matter what financial impacts it has on them. Protection of user data is a legal right, or increasingly recognized to be. Companies have no right to sell it, or misuse it, no matter what financial impacts it has on them. Rights cannot be contracted away or sold. They are rights.
- delichon 2y ago
  I rent my rights via a contract to certain defined aspects of my autonomy for about forty hours per week. In exchange for that I get tokens that I can exchange for food. If I couldn't contract away those rights I'd get hungry. I'm also willing to rent my right to determine the contents of advertisements inserted into my daily news feed, for the right price. These things feel equivalent in kind to me.
  - ab5tract 2y ago
    What rights are you contracting away, exactly? Usually capitalist rhetoric refers to contracting as a right in itself, muddying your point significantly.
    - delichon 2y ago
      I contract away time-slices of my human effort. I consider that I own that effort by right, and part of that ownership bundle is the right to destroy or exchange it. So it is consistent to both have a right and to trade parts of it away. It would be less of a right if I were prohibited from exchanging it for other priorities, like food.
- johnthewise 2y ago
  You are saying I shouldn't be able to consent to letting someone sell my data? Can I sell my own data? How about if I shared it, would that be illegal?

Sakos 2y ago

> Then it sounds like what you’re saying is there’s a financial market for users like you and I who would rather pay a subscription fee than our data be sold? Or an ad supported tier? And the vast majority of users don't deserve privacy? Nah, that's a ridiculous argument to make and I'm not going to waste my time with this line of discussion. You're not making a good faith argument. I'm not playing your stupid games.

threatofrain 2y ago
There's plenty of interpretative room to view the above comment as honest discussion as opposed to dishonesty ("bad faith"). But now you've burned the bridge so hard why do you even bother making an argument? Just to get the last word? One cannot unring a bell.
multimoon 2y ago
I don’t think there’s need for anger, I’m not “playing games”. All I’m doing is pointing out that there has to be a source of revenue to run any given service - and if you remove all the sources of revenue then the service ceases to exist. Right now the only viable sources of revenue at that kind of online service scale is subscriptions, ads, or data collection and sale. If there’s a method I’m not thinking of I’m genuinely curious what the financial model would look like.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
phyzix5761 2y ago
No one is forcing you to use these services. I care very much about my privacy and only use a handful of services that respect that privacy. Stop giving your money to companies you disagree with and stop forcing your morality on others. Because all that does is set the precedent for someone to force their morality on you even if you disagree with it. That's how we get anti gay, xenophobic, extremists forcing their moral views on others. Let people decide what is right for them.

abdullahkhalids 2y ago

Protection of the water we drink is a legal right. Which is why companies cannot dump waste into the river, no matter what financial impacts it has on them. Protection of user data is a legal right, or increasingly recognized to be. Companies have no right to sell it, or misuse it, no matter what financial impacts it has on them. Rights cannot be contracted away or sold. They are rights.

delichon 2y ago
I rent my rights via a contract to certain defined aspects of my autonomy for about forty hours per week. In exchange for that I get tokens that I can exchange for food. If I couldn't contract away those rights I'd get hungry. I'm also willing to rent my right to determine the contents of advertisements inserted into my daily news feed, for the right price. These things feel equivalent in kind to me.
- ab5tract 2y ago
  What rights are you contracting away, exactly? Usually capitalist rhetoric refers to contracting as a right in itself, muddying your point significantly.
  - delichon 2y ago
    I contract away time-slices of my human effort. I consider that I own that effort by right, and part of that ownership bundle is the right to destroy or exchange it. So it is consistent to both have a right and to trade parts of it away. It would be less of a right if I were prohibited from exchanging it for other priorities, like food.
johnthewise 2y ago
You are saying I shouldn't be able to consent to letting someone sell my data? Can I sell my own data? How about if I shared it, would that be illegal?