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The real problem is that the requirements for a social platform are getting very onerous, to the point that it takes at least several engineers working full tim

The real problem is that the requirements for a social platform are getting very onerous, to the point that it takes at least several engineers working full time on the problem. That really hurts a startup's ability to initially launch in the market, especially one with less VC money. (Certain BigCo new products can be thought of as a startup too, with limited budgets.) This doesn't just affect social media companies, it affects almost any product where a user can upload data, or any product with a social feature, no matter how peripheral the feature is. Turns out that's a wide swathe of technology, and that social features are fairly valuable. Of course the big companies will eventually get around to launching in Europe anyway, it will just trail behind the rest of the world.

betaby 2y ago
In other words - classic regulatory capture.
zug_zug 2y ago
Is that true though? Are there any 5-person startups with < 10k users getting sued/shutdown by this regulation?
- spongebobstoes 2y ago
  That data point is very hard to provide any evidence for, and not sufficient to draw any conclusions from. For example, what if the company was never started? What if they pivoted after speaking to a lawyer?
  - zug_zug 2y ago
    Frankly I'm not very convinced by that -- it seems that most social networks are already killed by winner-takes-all SV companies buying-out any possible threat. The situation in America is an absolute nightmare with data being sold through all sorts of mechanisms with zero oversight (your ISP, your car, most apps on your phone, whoever does your credit scores) -- I'm sure there's some way to make successful tech that isn't the hellscape America has.
  - lucianbr 2y ago
    > Criteria relating to the size of the companies: (a) a turnover of the company of at least 7.5 billion euro in the European Economic Area for three years at least or (b) a market capitalization or equivalent of at least 75 billion euro; > Criteria relating to the place of the company in controlling access of other businesses to final customers: the company needs to have (a) more than 45 million monthly active end users in the EU and (b) more than 10,000 yearly active business in the EU; > "An entrenched durable position" which is a qualitative criterion which the regulator considers met if the numbers of active users in the second criterion are met for three years in a row. It is indeed very hard to find evidence that DMA does not affect startups, if you don't want to find that evidence. You're seriously arguing that a startup founder would think "well, when I get to a 75 billion euro valuation, there will be some cumbersome rules, so I might as well not start anything"???
    - burnerthrow008 2y ago
      Sure, but those quantitative criterion were not met by iPadOS, and the EC just said "nah, we gots the feelz" and declared it a gatekeeper platform anyway. Who is to say they won't decide that a 6 person startup with 10 users doesn't qualify?
      - GreenWatermelon 2y ago
        This is a clear example of slippery slope fallacy.
Vinnl 2y ago
Which regulations are you referring to? Do those not apply just to those that have managed to obtain a dominant role, ie not startups entering the market?
themagician 2y ago
The requirements for social platforms are just becoming more inline with all other industries. The period of special treatment is over. The era of, “If it’s on social media then no one is liable for this content or the harm it may cause, but also I can still monetize it,” is over. It is a welcome change, but not for those who mean to exploit the special status that “social media” and “apps” have been given all these years.
ryandrake 2y ago
This can be said about any regulation that makes it more difficult to deliver a product. Are food safety regulations "onerous" because the food company has to hire several people to ensure their food is safe? A food startup who can't afford to hire those people might argue that they are at a disadvantage and therefore the regulations are onerous and favor large companies.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  >A food startup who can't afford to hire those people might argue that they are at a disadvantage and therefore the regulations are onerous and favor large companies. That is literally the point of food regulations. They are not prescriptive but descriptive. No regulation says 'make food with >100 E-coli per KG' it always says 'use stainless steel table, no smaller than 2mx1m, in a well ventilated room of size...'.
belorn 2y ago
Most, if not all this kind of EU regulation has size limits, usually several steps between small startups with a small number of users, up to the size of gatekeeper platforms. There aren't many startups that start off as a gatekeeper since there is only six companies in the world that has that definition (Alphabet, Amazon, Apple, ByteDance, Meta, and Microsoft).
yencabulator 2y ago
> The real problem is that the requirements for a social platform are getting very onerous, to the point that it takes at least several engineers working full time on the problem. There are only 19 companies in the world that are required to comply with the strict rules. I think they can pay those "several engineers" from the money they make in EU. This is not about startups, and this is not about launching. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Services_Act#Large_online_platforms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Services_Act#Large_onl...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

betaby 2y ago

In other words - classic regulatory capture.

zug_zug 2y ago

Is that true though? Are there any 5-person startups with < 10k users getting sued/shutdown by this regulation?

spongebobstoes 2y ago
That data point is very hard to provide any evidence for, and not sufficient to draw any conclusions from. For example, what if the company was never started? What if they pivoted after speaking to a lawyer?
- zug_zug 2y ago
  Frankly I'm not very convinced by that -- it seems that most social networks are already killed by winner-takes-all SV companies buying-out any possible threat. The situation in America is an absolute nightmare with data being sold through all sorts of mechanisms with zero oversight (your ISP, your car, most apps on your phone, whoever does your credit scores) -- I'm sure there's some way to make successful tech that isn't the hellscape America has.
- lucianbr 2y ago
  > Criteria relating to the size of the companies: (a) a turnover of the company of at least 7.5 billion euro in the European Economic Area for three years at least or (b) a market capitalization or equivalent of at least 75 billion euro; > Criteria relating to the place of the company in controlling access of other businesses to final customers: the company needs to have (a) more than 45 million monthly active end users in the EU and (b) more than 10,000 yearly active business in the EU; > "An entrenched durable position" which is a qualitative criterion which the regulator considers met if the numbers of active users in the second criterion are met for three years in a row. It is indeed very hard to find evidence that DMA does not affect startups, if you don't want to find that evidence. You're seriously arguing that a startup founder would think "well, when I get to a 75 billion euro valuation, there will be some cumbersome rules, so I might as well not start anything"???
  - burnerthrow008 2y ago
    Sure, but those quantitative criterion were not met by iPadOS, and the EC just said "nah, we gots the feelz" and declared it a gatekeeper platform anyway. Who is to say they won't decide that a 6 person startup with 10 users doesn't qualify?
    - GreenWatermelon 2y ago
      This is a clear example of slippery slope fallacy.

Vinnl 2y ago

Which regulations are you referring to? Do those not apply just to those that have managed to obtain a dominant role, ie not startups entering the market?

themagician 2y ago

The requirements for social platforms are just becoming more inline with all other industries. The period of special treatment is over. The era of, “If it’s on social media then no one is liable for this content or the harm it may cause, but also I can still monetize it,” is over. It is a welcome change, but not for those who mean to exploit the special status that “social media” and “apps” have been given all these years.

ryandrake 2y ago

This can be said about any regulation that makes it more difficult to deliver a product. Are food safety regulations "onerous" because the food company has to hire several people to ensure their food is safe? A food startup who can't afford to hire those people might argue that they are at a disadvantage and therefore the regulations are onerous and favor large companies.

llm_trw 2y ago
>A food startup who can't afford to hire those people might argue that they are at a disadvantage and therefore the regulations are onerous and favor large companies. That is literally the point of food regulations. They are not prescriptive but descriptive. No regulation says 'make food with >100 E-coli per KG' it always says 'use stainless steel table, no smaller than 2mx1m, in a well ventilated room of size...'.

belorn 2y ago

Most, if not all this kind of EU regulation has size limits, usually several steps between small startups with a small number of users, up to the size of gatekeeper platforms. There aren't many startups that start off as a gatekeeper since there is only six companies in the world that has that definition (Alphabet, Amazon, Apple, ByteDance, Meta, and Microsoft).

yencabulator 2y ago

> The real problem is that the requirements for a social platform are getting very onerous, to the point that it takes at least several engineers working full time on the problem. There are only 19 companies in the world that are required to comply with the strict rules. I think they can pay those "several engineers" from the money they make in EU. This is not about startups, and this is not about launching. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Services_Act#Large_online_platforms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Services_Act#Large_onl...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]