5 ms·

> What is 'white' is very arbitrary in the first place Sure, I agree. As far as I’m concerned the earth is populated by ~8 billion individual human beings. But

> What is 'white' is very arbitrary in the first place Sure, I agree. As far as I’m concerned the earth is populated by ~8 billion individual human beings. But this is heresy according to the idiotic identity politics that has slowly taken over bits and pieces of western culture. It’s an ideology that demands everybody be shoehorned into race/gender/sexuality tribes. When it comes to DEI scores, there’s no ambiguity about who’s white and who’s not white. It’s an ideology that I don’t like at all, and it’s been constantly forced into a lot of entertainment. Whether this role was cast as a part of that mission or not doesn’t really matter, because it’s tainted the whole industry. > And now demographics of audiences have changed so Hollywood has (slowly) adapted I would say this isn’t a response to audience changes at all, and simply the result of a small elite of political activists, often producing product that directly defy the tastes of the core audience. But that doesn’t really matter either, because the people that don’t like it will simply disengage (though some will complain about it more than others). I personally don’t really care very much either, I’m just offering my perspective. I barely watch any TV or movies any more, and I couldn’t say my life has suffered for it at all.

mpalmer 2y ago
> the result of a small elite of political activists Conspiratorial thinking based on absolutely nothing. Anything that "directly defies the tastes of the core audience" will fail. It's obvious you're choosing to put yourself in this "core" audience. What if you're wrong about that? And what if I told you that the free market is the most powerful cultural force in the US, and TV/film studios produce content in ways they think will make the most money? That if they aren't making enough money, they change their strategy? Would that be new information to you?
- hot_gril 2y ago
  "TV/film studios produce content in ways they think will make the most money" isn't always true. Sometimes a movie really has a purpose. And when it doesn't, it's a very inexact business (unless maybe it's Nostalgia Avengers part 99), so personal interests can creep in. Like how Microsoft built up DEI departments only to fire them recently. Even if Hollywood were a well-oiled machine, what would you say if they estimate they're losing sales from diversity casting, due to upsetting part of their audience, and decides to undo that?
  - mpalmer 2y ago
    I would say "boy it sure does suck to be proven right".
- AmericanChopper 2y ago
  I guess you could say it technically is a conspiracy. But it's a well documented and publicised one. https://www.oscars.org/awards/representation-and-inclusion-standards https://www.oscars.org/awards/representation-and-inclusion-s... > And what if I told you that the free market is the most powerful cultural force in the US, and TV/film studios produce content in ways they think will make the most money? These DEI products fail all the time. The most recent Star Wars series is a great example. These failures are also well documented in every TV show/movie where the critics score and the audience score are miles apart on rotten tomatoes.
  - mpalmer 2y ago
    You really thought that link was a smoking gun, didn't you. Have you read this thing? Do you understand how hard it is NOT to check two of these four boxes? Basically all of your film's department heads have to be white straight men, you have to fail to hire just 6(!) women/POC/etc in other significant jobs, and the studio's executives all belong to over-represented groups. As in, they are whiter and straighter than THE COUNTRY. That you insist on seeing evil and bad faith in efforts to make our culture more representative of our actual population is very depressing to me.
    - AmericanChopper 2y ago
      It dictates choice between major casting requirements, or major storyline requirements. I’m not sure why you’ve only mentioned the crew requirements, which I also think are bad, but are irrelevant to this thread. Can I take it you’re admitting this is a conspiracy implemented by a small group of political activist elites, but that you just want to downplay its impact a bit?
      - mpalmer 2y ago
        First, I'm afraid you are very confused about your own link. My point was that the things I mentioned are sufficient on their own to qualify a movie for the Best Picture category. Pick any TWO of these four: - "Diverse" casting (aka roughly in line with US pop demographics and even then, STILL favoring white men) OR storyline centered on non-white OR non-male OR non-heterosexual theme - "Diverse" leadership (Simply have two dept heads that aren't white, straight, male, AND fully-abled) - Opportunities for training and advancement for people who are not white, straight, male AND fully-abled - Studio has >1 senior executive OR consultant that has a significantly different background from the rich, white, straight, fully-abled men that ran Hollywood for the better part of a century. Just find two people! Second, the word "elites" perfectly describes the people who run the system people are trying to change. Elites don't want to change anything. Why would they?
thruway516 2y ago
The demographics have changed and that has A LOT to do with it. Not only inside of American, movies must now sell in places like China and India and to a lesser extent in Africa and satisfy very different kinds of audiences and worldviews very different from yours. It's business. Success at the global box office is just about a necessity these days for movies with gargantuan budgets. Sure there might be a DEI push and it might seem heavy-handed and forced at times but imo it is kind of necessary because Hollywood has been very slow to adapt. You might think you hate it but there are millions of people with equally valid opinion who actually think it is not enough. Somewhere between 'DEI' and the backlash (whether well meaning or not) there's hopefully a happy medium that satisfies most people, not just a minority.

mpalmer 2y ago

> the result of a small elite of political activists Conspiratorial thinking based on absolutely nothing. Anything that "directly defies the tastes of the core audience" will fail. It's obvious you're choosing to put yourself in this "core" audience. What if you're wrong about that? And what if I told you that the free market is the most powerful cultural force in the US, and TV/film studios produce content in ways they think will make the most money? That if they aren't making enough money, they change their strategy? Would that be new information to you?

hot_gril 2y ago
"TV/film studios produce content in ways they think will make the most money" isn't always true. Sometimes a movie really has a purpose. And when it doesn't, it's a very inexact business (unless maybe it's Nostalgia Avengers part 99), so personal interests can creep in. Like how Microsoft built up DEI departments only to fire them recently. Even if Hollywood were a well-oiled machine, what would you say if they estimate they're losing sales from diversity casting, due to upsetting part of their audience, and decides to undo that?
- mpalmer 2y ago
  I would say "boy it sure does suck to be proven right".
AmericanChopper 2y ago
I guess you could say it technically is a conspiracy. But it's a well documented and publicised one. https://www.oscars.org/awards/representation-and-inclusion-standards https://www.oscars.org/awards/representation-and-inclusion-s... > And what if I told you that the free market is the most powerful cultural force in the US, and TV/film studios produce content in ways they think will make the most money? These DEI products fail all the time. The most recent Star Wars series is a great example. These failures are also well documented in every TV show/movie where the critics score and the audience score are miles apart on rotten tomatoes.
- mpalmer 2y ago
  You really thought that link was a smoking gun, didn't you. Have you read this thing? Do you understand how hard it is NOT to check two of these four boxes? Basically all of your film's department heads have to be white straight men, you have to fail to hire just 6(!) women/POC/etc in other significant jobs, and the studio's executives all belong to over-represented groups. As in, they are whiter and straighter than THE COUNTRY. That you insist on seeing evil and bad faith in efforts to make our culture more representative of our actual population is very depressing to me.
  - AmericanChopper 2y ago
    It dictates choice between major casting requirements, or major storyline requirements. I’m not sure why you’ve only mentioned the crew requirements, which I also think are bad, but are irrelevant to this thread. Can I take it you’re admitting this is a conspiracy implemented by a small group of political activist elites, but that you just want to downplay its impact a bit?
    - mpalmer 2y ago
      First, I'm afraid you are very confused about your own link. My point was that the things I mentioned are sufficient on their own to qualify a movie for the Best Picture category. Pick any TWO of these four: - "Diverse" casting (aka roughly in line with US pop demographics and even then, STILL favoring white men) OR storyline centered on non-white OR non-male OR non-heterosexual theme - "Diverse" leadership (Simply have two dept heads that aren't white, straight, male, AND fully-abled) - Opportunities for training and advancement for people who are not white, straight, male AND fully-abled - Studio has >1 senior executive OR consultant that has a significantly different background from the rich, white, straight, fully-abled men that ran Hollywood for the better part of a century. Just find two people! Second, the word "elites" perfectly describes the people who run the system people are trying to change. Elites don't want to change anything. Why would they?

thruway516 2y ago

The demographics have changed and that has A LOT to do with it. Not only inside of American, movies must now sell in places like China and India and to a lesser extent in Africa and satisfy very different kinds of audiences and worldviews very different from yours. It's business. Success at the global box office is just about a necessity these days for movies with gargantuan budgets. Sure there might be a DEI push and it might seem heavy-handed and forced at times but imo it is kind of necessary because Hollywood has been very slow to adapt. You might think you hate it but there are millions of people with equally valid opinion who actually think it is not enough. Somewhere between 'DEI' and the backlash (whether well meaning or not) there's hopefully a happy medium that satisfies most people, not just a minority.