4 ms·

It is difficult to overstate how important advertising is in every economy.

dekken_ 2y ago
No, it's easy to misunderstand what makes a functional, prosperous economy. People need to have the capacity to find things. Today we have the internet, and search engines. If people want something, they can look. In this way, all parties consent, otherwise advertisements are harassment.
- rangerelf 2y ago
  > In this way, all parties consent, otherwise advertisements are harassment. ABSOLUTELY this. Advertisements use MY bandwidth, MY compute resources, MY time, MY space, to harass me by showing me things I have zero interest in, all the while interrupting what I'm doing, distracting me, and then having the gall to tell me "but think of the poor publishers!!". They have caused the appearance of an industry that's a pox on all ("influencers") who behave like society owes them the space, time, attention and deference that for whatever reason they think they need. And for a cherry on top, it makes everything more expensive because WE pay for all of it.
  - dekken_ 2y ago
    I think we agree ;) Thinking about advertiser bytes on my ethernet cables, makes me feel, compromised. I did not consent. It must end.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  > People need to have the capacity to find things. There's a previous step: People need to know that there is such a thing to find. Some advertising (I'll call it "base" advertising, though there may be a better term) is just information. "Hey, everybody, there's this new thing called a mobile phone!" "Hey, everybody, there's this new disease called AIDS that you really had better alter your behavior to avoid, because it's deadly." There's a second kind, which I will call "us" advertising: "Hey, everybody, we have the best mobile phones! Available now at WalMart!" We don't need the second kind, at all. I'm not sure, but I suspect the first kind is at least somewhat useful. (You can still probably call it harassment, though. Useful, but still harassment.)
  - dekken_ 2y ago
    > People need to know that there is such a thing to find. IMO, finding things, also covers not being aware it existed. Like you're on amazon searching for something, and they suggest something you might also like, they don't know if you knew about it already. That's fine, still both parties consenting.
  - GeoAtreides 2y ago
    You're missing the largest advertising: lifestyle advertising. It's not "hey everybody, we have the best mobile phone", it's "You will be cool, women will want you, success awaits you with our mobile phone".
  - fragmede 2y ago
    The second kind is still information though. Where do they sell mobile phones? At the grocers? At the butcher shop? At the dress shop? At the shoe store? If I had a small store that wasn't Walmart, and wanted people to come to my store that sells cellphones, isn't it also informative to know that my store exists and that I sell cellphones? It's only because people already know about Walmart and that it's an everything store that makes your example seem like it's not informative.
lolinder 2y ago
Which means that when we move to dismantle it we should do so carefully, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't move to dismantle it. We've had economies founded on unethical systems before, and we chose to dismantle them in spite of the risks because it was the right thing to do.
brodo 2y ago
If I remember "The Century of Self" correctly, advertising in its all-present form was invented after WW2.
- dekken_ 2y ago
  Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s
throwadobe 2y ago
Citation needed. Maybe it's difficult to state it, entirely.
cjbgkagh 2y ago
That would be like saying your body is full of cancer and you're still alive thus it must be the cancer that's keeping you alive. Where you don't know what could have existed without advertisements. I wish there was a low friction microtransaction for services which seems to be the main (only?) thing that advertisement allows that would other wise not exist. The technology exists to do this so banning advertisements does not appear to be a net negative to me. Before the pandemic many food deliver services were not viable, now they are (at least where I live), we could have done that without a pandemic but it required something big to force through the change. I see banning certain kinds of ads as one of those big changes but without the pandemic, maybe it'll change habits enough to enable microtransactions.
mihaaly 2y ago
No! Not, at, all! Not the way it is done! What you wanted to say is how influential it is, not important, not the same things, how hugely distorts the economy, distorts it on a grand scale! Not important, it is hugely harmful for the economy and societies, hugely! Probably you'd mean the promotional aspect, the getting informed of a new product kind of thing which was useful if it was not a misleading shameless lie into the face of the society by willful misinformation and forceful push of unwanted matters!
laserlight 2y ago
Like how slavery was back in time, right? Just like we don't enslave people for economic benefit today, we have the choice to act virtuously, independent of the economic impact.

No, it's easy to misunderstand what makes a functional, prosperous economy. People need to have the capacity to find things. Today we have the internet, and search engines. If people want something, they can look. In this way, all parties consent, otherwise advertisements are harassment.

rangerelf 2y ago
> In this way, all parties consent, otherwise advertisements are harassment. ABSOLUTELY this. Advertisements use MY bandwidth, MY compute resources, MY time, MY space, to harass me by showing me things I have zero interest in, all the while interrupting what I'm doing, distracting me, and then having the gall to tell me "but think of the poor publishers!!". They have caused the appearance of an industry that's a pox on all ("influencers") who behave like society owes them the space, time, attention and deference that for whatever reason they think they need. And for a cherry on top, it makes everything more expensive because WE pay for all of it.
- dekken_ 2y ago
  I think we agree ;) Thinking about advertiser bytes on my ethernet cables, makes me feel, compromised. I did not consent. It must end.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
> People need to have the capacity to find things. There's a previous step: People need to know that there is such a thing to find. Some advertising (I'll call it "base" advertising, though there may be a better term) is just information. "Hey, everybody, there's this new thing called a mobile phone!" "Hey, everybody, there's this new disease called AIDS that you really had better alter your behavior to avoid, because it's deadly." There's a second kind, which I will call "us" advertising: "Hey, everybody, we have the best mobile phones! Available now at WalMart!" We don't need the second kind, at all. I'm not sure, but I suspect the first kind is at least somewhat useful. (You can still probably call it harassment, though. Useful, but still harassment.)
- dekken_ 2y ago
  > People need to know that there is such a thing to find. IMO, finding things, also covers not being aware it existed. Like you're on amazon searching for something, and they suggest something you might also like, they don't know if you knew about it already. That's fine, still both parties consenting.
- GeoAtreides 2y ago
  You're missing the largest advertising: lifestyle advertising. It's not "hey everybody, we have the best mobile phone", it's "You will be cool, women will want you, success awaits you with our mobile phone".
- fragmede 2y ago
  The second kind is still information though. Where do they sell mobile phones? At the grocers? At the butcher shop? At the dress shop? At the shoe store? If I had a small store that wasn't Walmart, and wanted people to come to my store that sells cellphones, isn't it also informative to know that my store exists and that I sell cellphones? It's only because people already know about Walmart and that it's an everything store that makes your example seem like it's not informative.

lolinder 2y ago

Which means that when we move to dismantle it we should do so carefully, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't move to dismantle it. We've had economies founded on unethical systems before, and we chose to dismantle them in spite of the risks because it was the right thing to do.

brodo 2y ago

If I remember "The Century of Self" correctly, advertising in its all-present form was invented after WW2.

dekken_ 2y ago
Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

throwadobe 2y ago

Citation needed. Maybe it's difficult to state it, entirely.

cjbgkagh 2y ago

That would be like saying your body is full of cancer and you're still alive thus it must be the cancer that's keeping you alive. Where you don't know what could have existed without advertisements. I wish there was a low friction microtransaction for services which seems to be the main (only?) thing that advertisement allows that would other wise not exist. The technology exists to do this so banning advertisements does not appear to be a net negative to me. Before the pandemic many food deliver services were not viable, now they are (at least where I live), we could have done that without a pandemic but it required something big to force through the change. I see banning certain kinds of ads as one of those big changes but without the pandemic, maybe it'll change habits enough to enable microtransactions.

mihaaly 2y ago

No! Not, at, all! Not the way it is done! What you wanted to say is how influential it is, not important, not the same things, how hugely distorts the economy, distorts it on a grand scale! Not important, it is hugely harmful for the economy and societies, hugely! Probably you'd mean the promotional aspect, the getting informed of a new product kind of thing which was useful if it was not a misleading shameless lie into the face of the society by willful misinformation and forceful push of unwanted matters!

laserlight 2y ago

Like how slavery was back in time, right? Just like we don't enslave people for economic benefit today, we have the choice to act virtuously, independent of the economic impact.