4 ms·

Lack of sleep increases stroke risk

51 points by aginn 14y ago

aginn 14y ago
More reason why to sleep more http://www.aginnt.com/post/23693419818/how-to-be-a-great-entrepreneur-sleep-breaks-and-a#.T9judyu-RrU http://www.aginnt.com/post/23693419818/how-to-be-a-great-ent...
- hobin 14y ago
  More reasons why both 'SLEEP MOAR!' and 'SLEEP LESS!' are misguided: http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/12698511 http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/12698511
  - aginn 14y ago
    It does depend on what you need, but in general, not sure many people recommend to sleep less. I thought the world suffers from overload. The number of hours we sleep has fallen. I think the best sleeping habits reflect those of Churchill and humans before the 19th century: sleep 6 hours and then sleep 2 to 4 in the middle of the day.
jlarocco 14y ago
I wish they gave more information. Is the effect reversible? How long does it take for a persons stroke risk to go back to normal if they start sleeping more? What if I get 5 hours of sleep five nights a week, but 10 hours each of the other two nights?
- corin_ 14y ago
  It's a case of wishing they had more, not gave more, information - or more accurately, wishing they will keep going to get this information.
scottchin 14y ago
There doesnt seem to be any links to the study itself...
- cwhittle 14y ago
  http://www.regardsstudy.org/ http://www.regardsstudy.org/ Doesn't appear to be published yet, just presented at the SLEEP2012 conference. Ruiter M, Howard VJ, Letter AJ, Kleindorfer D. Short sleep predicts stroke symptoms in persons of normal weight. SLEEP 2012; June 11, 2012; Boston, MA. Abstract 0829.
genwin 14y ago
If one sleeps less than 6 hours a night, maybe there's other reasons for that, that lead to stroke, like anxiety over being deep in debt. So reducing such risk of stroke may not be as simple as getting more sleep. Reminds me of the study that concluded that people living together (vs. married) leads to ~30% greater chance of alcholism. Maybe alcoholics just aren't as likely to get married? Surely there's a Wiki on this type of logical fallacy somewhere. Anyone know what it's called?
- IvoDankolov 14y ago
  Correlation does not imply causation? Statisticians like to use that one at every opportunity. Bear in mid, though, that "you shouldn't investigate correlations anyway" is absolutely the wrong conclusion from this.
- JoelMcCracken 14y ago
  correlation does not imply causation
- davej 14y ago
  Perhaps 'Correlation does not imply causation'. The associated logical fallacy is known 'Post hoc ergo propter hoc'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_caus... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
  - genwin 14y ago
    Great, I'll know now. I see a lot of such conclusions in major media. Wish they'd point out the fallacy, but that probably wouldn't sell the news as well! Love the example in the 2nd link: 'One class of examples is sometimes called the "Rooster Syndrome": "believing that the rooster’s crowing causes the sun to rise".'
- watmough 14y ago
  I had an interesting test imposed on me last night. Power outage, phone almost dead, children asleep. In bed at 9:30, asleep by 10pm and totally awake and annoying my wife with chatter at 4:30am. 6 and 1/2 hours sleep. Pretty normal for me. I work hard and am pretty happy.
3pt14159 14y ago
Be very wary of headlines like this. They draw the line at 6 hours, but that includes everyone, even people that only get 3 hours. What we want is the raw curves. If you get exactly 5 hours and 55 minutes a night, you might only be 1.5 times as likely as someone who gets 9 hours a night, while the people getting 4 hours a night are 15 times more likely.
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  What you want to see is the study, how the analysis variables were constructed, and what models were tested. If a simple binary "subject slept 6 hours or fewer" variable is constructed, and there's no other discriminant, then if there is a significant positive correlation, it will show. Testing multiple conditions, exclusively (3 or fewer, 4 or fewer, 5 ..., etc.) would get around this. By way of comparison: I've used the Harris-Benedict basal metabolic rate formula to estimate caloric expenditure by individuals. The question came up: how well does this scale to extreme weights. It turns out that the original study is online as a PDF, including full stats on all the study subjects. My surprises were that 1) the formula is a lot older than I'd imagined (dating to 1919), involved a relatively small study size (a few score participants), and the weight range did not include high-end extremes unfortunately rather too common in current populations. I've taken to treating the values generated for extremely overweight individuals with a bit more suspicion as a result. Study context matters.
akozak 14y ago
A more balanced take on the study: http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/APSS/33225 http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/APSS/33225
adventureful 14y ago
Eat a terrible diet, get little exercise, live a sedentary lifestyle, approx. 997 times more likely to have a stroke.
- khyryk 14y ago
  Sounds like the stereotypical coder.
skore 14y ago
I think the actual correlation here is: Sleeping very little -indicates-> Stress and Anxiety -builds to-> Hypertension -leads to-> Stroke Major disturbances in sleeping habits - Insomnia or Excessive Sleeping - are themselves strongly indicative of Depression, another major marker in terms of the Anxiety->Hypertension->Stroke vector. So, to conclude: Yes, sleeping very little is probably correlated with health problems, but mostly because it indicates something else being very wrong.
- segmond 14y ago
  Very good point. I use to sleep 8-10hrs a night but that was when I was taking life easy. I now average 5-6 hrs by choice, stress free! no health issues, as happy as I can be. Simply because I want to wake up early and work on some projects. They should take such into account.
munkydung 14y ago
I guess all parents of small children are doomed? sensational headline is sensational.

51 points by aginn 14y ago

aginn 14y ago

More reason why to sleep more http://www.aginnt.com/post/23693419818/how-to-be-a-great-entrepreneur-sleep-breaks-and-a#.T9judyu-RrU http://www.aginnt.com/post/23693419818/how-to-be-a-great-ent...

hobin 14y ago
More reasons why both 'SLEEP MOAR!' and 'SLEEP LESS!' are misguided: http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/12698511 http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/12698511
- aginn 14y ago
  It does depend on what you need, but in general, not sure many people recommend to sleep less. I thought the world suffers from overload. The number of hours we sleep has fallen. I think the best sleeping habits reflect those of Churchill and humans before the 19th century: sleep 6 hours and then sleep 2 to 4 in the middle of the day.

jlarocco 14y ago

I wish they gave more information. Is the effect reversible? How long does it take for a persons stroke risk to go back to normal if they start sleeping more? What if I get 5 hours of sleep five nights a week, but 10 hours each of the other two nights?

corin_ 14y ago
It's a case of wishing they had more, not gave more, information - or more accurately, wishing they will keep going to get this information.

scottchin 14y ago

There doesnt seem to be any links to the study itself...

cwhittle 14y ago
http://www.regardsstudy.org/ http://www.regardsstudy.org/ Doesn't appear to be published yet, just presented at the SLEEP2012 conference. Ruiter M, Howard VJ, Letter AJ, Kleindorfer D. Short sleep predicts stroke symptoms in persons of normal weight. SLEEP 2012; June 11, 2012; Boston, MA. Abstract 0829.

genwin 14y ago

If one sleeps less than 6 hours a night, maybe there's other reasons for that, that lead to stroke, like anxiety over being deep in debt. So reducing such risk of stroke may not be as simple as getting more sleep. Reminds me of the study that concluded that people living together (vs. married) leads to ~30% greater chance of alcholism. Maybe alcoholics just aren't as likely to get married? Surely there's a Wiki on this type of logical fallacy somewhere. Anyone know what it's called?

IvoDankolov 14y ago
Correlation does not imply causation? Statisticians like to use that one at every opportunity. Bear in mid, though, that "you shouldn't investigate correlations anyway" is absolutely the wrong conclusion from this.
JoelMcCracken 14y ago
correlation does not imply causation
davej 14y ago
Perhaps 'Correlation does not imply causation'. The associated logical fallacy is known 'Post hoc ergo propter hoc'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_caus... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
- genwin 14y ago
  Great, I'll know now. I see a lot of such conclusions in major media. Wish they'd point out the fallacy, but that probably wouldn't sell the news as well! Love the example in the 2nd link: 'One class of examples is sometimes called the "Rooster Syndrome": "believing that the rooster’s crowing causes the sun to rise".'
watmough 14y ago
I had an interesting test imposed on me last night. Power outage, phone almost dead, children asleep. In bed at 9:30, asleep by 10pm and totally awake and annoying my wife with chatter at 4:30am. 6 and 1/2 hours sleep. Pretty normal for me. I work hard and am pretty happy.

3pt14159 14y ago

Be very wary of headlines like this. They draw the line at 6 hours, but that includes everyone, even people that only get 3 hours. What we want is the raw curves. If you get exactly 5 hours and 55 minutes a night, you might only be 1.5 times as likely as someone who gets 9 hours a night, while the people getting 4 hours a night are 15 times more likely.

dredmorbius 14y ago
What you want to see is the study, how the analysis variables were constructed, and what models were tested. If a simple binary "subject slept 6 hours or fewer" variable is constructed, and there's no other discriminant, then if there is a significant positive correlation, it will show. Testing multiple conditions, exclusively (3 or fewer, 4 or fewer, 5 ..., etc.) would get around this. By way of comparison: I've used the Harris-Benedict basal metabolic rate formula to estimate caloric expenditure by individuals. The question came up: how well does this scale to extreme weights. It turns out that the original study is online as a PDF, including full stats on all the study subjects. My surprises were that 1) the formula is a lot older than I'd imagined (dating to 1919), involved a relatively small study size (a few score participants), and the weight range did not include high-end extremes unfortunately rather too common in current populations. I've taken to treating the values generated for extremely overweight individuals with a bit more suspicion as a result. Study context matters.

akozak 14y ago

A more balanced take on the study: http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/APSS/33225 http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/APSS/33225

adventureful 14y ago

Eat a terrible diet, get little exercise, live a sedentary lifestyle, approx. 997 times more likely to have a stroke.

khyryk 14y ago
Sounds like the stereotypical coder.

skore 14y ago

I think the actual correlation here is: Sleeping very little -indicates-> Stress and Anxiety -builds to-> Hypertension -leads to-> Stroke Major disturbances in sleeping habits - Insomnia or Excessive Sleeping - are themselves strongly indicative of Depression, another major marker in terms of the Anxiety->Hypertension->Stroke vector. So, to conclude: Yes, sleeping very little is probably correlated with health problems, but mostly because it indicates something else being very wrong.

segmond 14y ago
Very good point. I use to sleep 8-10hrs a night but that was when I was taking life easy. I now average 5-6 hrs by choice, stress free! no health issues, as happy as I can be. Simply because I want to wake up early and work on some projects. They should take such into account.

munkydung 14y ago

I guess all parents of small children are doomed? sensational headline is sensational.