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It’s the sort of behaviour, and explanation, that you might expect from someone who is far too tired to function, and is operating purely on ingrained habit. T

It’s the sort of behaviour, and explanation, that you might expect from someone who is far too tired to function, and is operating purely on ingrained habit. Things went well in this case, but I’ve seen the sort of schedules that are considered safe, and I can’t help but notice that if you asked me to work the same schedule then I would, at best, be exhausted at the end of every workday. If I for any reason didn’t get proper rest, if I had a subclinical cold, anything, then I’d be falling asleep at the wheel.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
I think both pilots and air traffic control are stretched thin due to labor shortages, and these incidents are the symptom (pilot and ATC errors, the latter appearing to be occurring far more often than previously wrt runway conflict and incursions). The system will continue to operate to the best of abilities, but failure will eventually result, because tired people make mistakes. An interesting exercise would be to consume ADS-B data flow and surface anomalous aircraft behavior (based on historical flight path look back and airspace/airspeed/altitude logic) for triage and reporting outside of formal reporting by ATC or pilots. https://www.reuters.com/article/business/southwest-airlines-ceo-sees-industry-wide-pilot-shortage-persisting-for-three-ye-idUSKBN2XN3RH/ https://www.reuters.com/article/business/southwest-airlines-... https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/14/business/faa-short-on-air-traffic-controllers/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/14/business/faa-short-on-air-tra... Edit: @CoastalCoder: I would also agree with that framing.
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  > I think both pilots and air traffic control are stretched thin due to labor shortages I find this framing interesting. Why call it "labor shortages" instead of "excess ticket sales" or "excess flight scheduling"? I'm not trying to pick on the parent comment; I've seen this framing a lot.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Or "insufficient compensation".
    - thrill 2y ago
      Both pilots and controllers are well compensated.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        Well compensated does not necessarily mean sufficiently compensated to the point where demand is satisfied.
chatmasta 2y ago
The article notes it was their fourth flight of the day, which means eight takeoffs or landings. And they started at 6am. I’m not a pilot, but doing eight rounds of mentally intensive work in a day is exhausting, especially when that day begins with a 4am wake up call in a hotel.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

I think both pilots and air traffic control are stretched thin due to labor shortages, and these incidents are the symptom (pilot and ATC errors, the latter appearing to be occurring far more often than previously wrt runway conflict and incursions). The system will continue to operate to the best of abilities, but failure will eventually result, because tired people make mistakes. An interesting exercise would be to consume ADS-B data flow and surface anomalous aircraft behavior (based on historical flight path look back and airspace/airspeed/altitude logic) for triage and reporting outside of formal reporting by ATC or pilots. https://www.reuters.com/article/business/southwest-airlines-ceo-sees-industry-wide-pilot-shortage-persisting-for-three-ye-idUSKBN2XN3RH/ https://www.reuters.com/article/business/southwest-airlines-... https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/14/business/faa-short-on-air-traffic-controllers/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/14/business/faa-short-on-air-tra... Edit: @CoastalCoder: I would also agree with that framing.

CoastalCoder 2y ago
> I think both pilots and air traffic control are stretched thin due to labor shortages I find this framing interesting. Why call it "labor shortages" instead of "excess ticket sales" or "excess flight scheduling"? I'm not trying to pick on the parent comment; I've seen this framing a lot.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Or "insufficient compensation".
  - thrill 2y ago
    Both pilots and controllers are well compensated.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      Well compensated does not necessarily mean sufficiently compensated to the point where demand is satisfied.

chatmasta 2y ago

The article notes it was their fourth flight of the day, which means eight takeoffs or landings. And they started at 6am. I’m not a pilot, but doing eight rounds of mentally intensive work in a day is exhausting, especially when that day begins with a 4am wake up call in a hotel.