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> If someone comes to your home, rapes you, and says your home Oh no, not yet another completely pointless "raped in your home" analogy. A nation is not a home

> If someone comes to your home, rapes you, and says your home Oh no, not yet another completely pointless "raped in your home" analogy. A nation is not a home and its citizens are not family, otherwise we'd manage countries much differently. > Russian troops are looting, raping, and enacting a genocide There's no genocide ongoing in Ukraine. No international authority has declared or recognized what's going on as genocide. Looting and raping is what happens in any war. The Americans know it very well. The question is: if you consider what's going on in Ukraine a genocide, with 10k civilians killed over 2 years and a half of war, how do we define what's going on in Israel/Palestine, with 40k civilians killed over 10 months of war? What about the ~200k civilian killed during USA's unjustified invasion of Iraq? How come we ended up appeasing the warmongers in that situation? So you see, if it's not worth causing a WWIII for Palestine, or for Iraq, then it's objectively not worth it for Ukraine. These are the rules, and it wasn't Russia who set them. And before you accuse me of "whataboutism": I'm not raising different issues to derail the conversation, I'm bringing in some much needed context to explain my reasoning.

mopsi 2y ago
> There's no genocide ongoing in Ukraine. No international authority has declared or recognized what's going on as genocide. Putin is literally an international fugitive wanted by the ICC for genocide. > Looting and raping is what happens in any war. The Americans know it very well. Scale makes a fundamental difference. Nothing comparable to 1-2 million raped German, Polish and other civilians in Prussia during the final months of the WWII took place on the western front. In Ukraine too, Russians continue to use sexual violence against civilians and prisoners of war in a systemic and institutionalized manner and on a massive scale. Trying to wave it away with "happens in any war" is disingenuous.
- ossobuco 2y ago
  > Putin is literally an international fugitive wanted by the ICC for genocide. No, the charges are "unlawful deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation", and we're talking about "at least hundreds of children". This has nothing to do with genocide and you shouldn't really throw the word around lightly. > Scale makes a fundamental difference. Nothing comparable to 1-2 million raped German, Polish and other civilians in Prussia during the final months of the WWII Now, that is some good old whataboutism. The URSS doesn't even exist anymore.
  - mopsi 2y ago
    > No, the charges are "unlawful deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation", and we're talking about "at least hundreds of children". This has nothing to do with genocide and you shouldn't really throw the word around lightly. Abduction of children is a form of genocide and stipulated as such in international treaties. As with many other crimes, the full extent remains unknown due to lack of access to occupied territories, but the number of victims is in at least tens of thousands, possibly in hundreds of thousands. > Now, that is some good old whataboutism. The URSS doesn't even exist anymore. ... refutes nothing I said.
    - ossobuco 2y ago
      lol ok genocide of hundreds of children who are actually still alive. I wish genocide was always like this. > ... refutes nothing I said. In the same way as nothing you said refutes nothing I said.
      - mopsi 2y ago
        > lol ok genocide of hundreds of children who are actually still alive. I wish genocide was always like this. Children abducted from Native Americans and forced into abusive charter schools also lived, but that doesn't make it any less of a genocide. If this prompts retarded "lol ok" reaction from you, then perhaps you should learn what geno and cide mean. Russians kidnap children from Ukraine, forge new birth certificates that change their name, birthday and location of birth to erase all traces of Ukrainian background, and then put them up for adoption. This is textbook example of destruction of ethnicity through the abduction of children - or genocide. > In the same way as nothing you said refutes nothing I said. It did refute. Rape and other forms of sexual abuse on the scale unleashed by Russia is at levels unseen in many other armed conflicts. The behavior of Russians in the final months of the WWII, compared to the behavior of western allies, is a prime example of the sharp difference. The same legacy lived on in the Afghan war, Chechen wars, and now in the Ukrainian war. Happens on a massive scale everywhere they go: Allegations of rape by Russian mercenaries, who have a large presence in CAR’s restive north-west region, have escalated in recent months. Women and girls are avoiding going to the fields and markets, and food shortages are being reported as a result. /-/ In Bouar, the country’s fifth-largest town with a population of about 40,000, the growing attacks in the farmlands are having an impact on food production as women stay away from the fields. As a result, some food prices have increased by 50% in the last eight months. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/jul/23/central-african-republic-women-girls-rape-sexual-violence-conflict-food-security-wagner-russian-mercenaries-un https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/...

mopsi 2y ago

> There's no genocide ongoing in Ukraine. No international authority has declared or recognized what's going on as genocide. Putin is literally an international fugitive wanted by the ICC for genocide. > Looting and raping is what happens in any war. The Americans know it very well. Scale makes a fundamental difference. Nothing comparable to 1-2 million raped German, Polish and other civilians in Prussia during the final months of the WWII took place on the western front. In Ukraine too, Russians continue to use sexual violence against civilians and prisoners of war in a systemic and institutionalized manner and on a massive scale. Trying to wave it away with "happens in any war" is disingenuous.

ossobuco 2y ago
> Putin is literally an international fugitive wanted by the ICC for genocide. No, the charges are "unlawful deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation", and we're talking about "at least hundreds of children". This has nothing to do with genocide and you shouldn't really throw the word around lightly. > Scale makes a fundamental difference. Nothing comparable to 1-2 million raped German, Polish and other civilians in Prussia during the final months of the WWII Now, that is some good old whataboutism. The URSS doesn't even exist anymore.
- mopsi 2y ago
  > No, the charges are "unlawful deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation", and we're talking about "at least hundreds of children". This has nothing to do with genocide and you shouldn't really throw the word around lightly. Abduction of children is a form of genocide and stipulated as such in international treaties. As with many other crimes, the full extent remains unknown due to lack of access to occupied territories, but the number of victims is in at least tens of thousands, possibly in hundreds of thousands. > Now, that is some good old whataboutism. The URSS doesn't even exist anymore. ... refutes nothing I said.
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    lol ok genocide of hundreds of children who are actually still alive. I wish genocide was always like this. > ... refutes nothing I said. In the same way as nothing you said refutes nothing I said.
    - mopsi 2y ago
      > lol ok genocide of hundreds of children who are actually still alive. I wish genocide was always like this. Children abducted from Native Americans and forced into abusive charter schools also lived, but that doesn't make it any less of a genocide. If this prompts retarded "lol ok" reaction from you, then perhaps you should learn what geno and cide mean. Russians kidnap children from Ukraine, forge new birth certificates that change their name, birthday and location of birth to erase all traces of Ukrainian background, and then put them up for adoption. This is textbook example of destruction of ethnicity through the abduction of children - or genocide. > In the same way as nothing you said refutes nothing I said. It did refute. Rape and other forms of sexual abuse on the scale unleashed by Russia is at levels unseen in many other armed conflicts. The behavior of Russians in the final months of the WWII, compared to the behavior of western allies, is a prime example of the sharp difference. The same legacy lived on in the Afghan war, Chechen wars, and now in the Ukrainian war. Happens on a massive scale everywhere they go: Allegations of rape by Russian mercenaries, who have a large presence in CAR’s restive north-west region, have escalated in recent months. Women and girls are avoiding going to the fields and markets, and food shortages are being reported as a result. /-/ In Bouar, the country’s fifth-largest town with a population of about 40,000, the growing attacks in the farmlands are having an impact on food production as women stay away from the fields. As a result, some food prices have increased by 50% in the last eight months. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/jul/23/central-african-republic-women-girls-rape-sexual-violence-conflict-food-security-wagner-russian-mercenaries-un https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/...