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> I really pity the African nations who got convinced to kick out Americans and the French. They will now get a taste of Russia and it will not be pretty. As a

> I really pity the African nations who got convinced to kick out Americans and the French. They will now get a taste of Russia and it will not be pretty. As a Russian I was with you until this part. Russia doesn't seem to have enough money/influence for that. They get a taste of China instead. Like https://x.com/mirab_clothiers/status/1782115456045728135 https://x.com/mirab_clothiers/status/1782115456045728135

neom 2y ago
At least the west knew what they were getting into when they enabled the Chinese extraction system (no objections here, seemed like a fine quid pro quo for a while). I don't expect we would see benevolence from China towards the west, I do hope they show it to the emerging countries, as they were not so long ago emerging themselves.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  Not sure I understand most of your comment, what extraction system?
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    China tends to be even more narrowly focused than Western powers on mineral extraction in its African investment, and they also have a reputation for relying very heavily on imported Chinese labor in their projects, which means the benefits percolate less than they would with Western projects (itself a pretty meager benefit usually!). Or it could be a reference to the Chinese tendency to invest in the form of giving countries loans that they are ill-equipped to pay back, and China playing very hardball on poorest country debt forgiveness.
  - neom 2y ago
    China emerged by building and selling. Part of the rise of china has been the extraction of wealth, resource, and knowledge. I don't say this with any shade, any emotion or feeling, just very literally. A large component of the ability for china to move forward so quickly was the creation of funnels that allowed for exchange. The west mostly extracted the labour and china extracted a bunch of other stuff. I can't think of a better word to describe what literally happened, and again, I'm not saying it with an opinion (that would be another discussion). Without any judgement, imo: China is good at creating extractive systems. (I'll add, if you've not read it, "Dealing with China An Insider Unmasks the New Economic Superpower By Henry Paulson" is a fantastic book)
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      OK, makes sense.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  > do hope they show it to the emerging countries, as they were not so long ago emerging themselves. That’s not how it works.
surfingdino 2y ago
Read this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2024/05/08/russia-has-tightened-its-hold-over-the-sahel-region-and-now-its-looking-to-africas-west-coast/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2024/05/08/russia-has-ti...

neom 2y ago

At least the west knew what they were getting into when they enabled the Chinese extraction system (no objections here, seemed like a fine quid pro quo for a while). I don't expect we would see benevolence from China towards the west, I do hope they show it to the emerging countries, as they were not so long ago emerging themselves.

throwaway290 2y ago
Not sure I understand most of your comment, what extraction system?
- jcranmer 2y ago
  China tends to be even more narrowly focused than Western powers on mineral extraction in its African investment, and they also have a reputation for relying very heavily on imported Chinese labor in their projects, which means the benefits percolate less than they would with Western projects (itself a pretty meager benefit usually!). Or it could be a reference to the Chinese tendency to invest in the form of giving countries loans that they are ill-equipped to pay back, and China playing very hardball on poorest country debt forgiveness.
- neom 2y ago
  China emerged by building and selling. Part of the rise of china has been the extraction of wealth, resource, and knowledge. I don't say this with any shade, any emotion or feeling, just very literally. A large component of the ability for china to move forward so quickly was the creation of funnels that allowed for exchange. The west mostly extracted the labour and china extracted a bunch of other stuff. I can't think of a better word to describe what literally happened, and again, I'm not saying it with an opinion (that would be another discussion). Without any judgement, imo: China is good at creating extractive systems. (I'll add, if you've not read it, "Dealing with China An Insider Unmasks the New Economic Superpower By Henry Paulson" is a fantastic book)
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    OK, makes sense.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
> do hope they show it to the emerging countries, as they were not so long ago emerging themselves. That’s not how it works.

surfingdino 2y ago

Read this https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2024/05/08/russia-has-tightened-its-hold-over-the-sahel-region-and-now-its-looking-to-africas-west-coast/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2024/05/08/russia-has-ti...