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Your post is actually a form of marketing. Marketing for a certain idea, world view. Some may agree, others won’t. That’s what we do as species. We talk, we c

by baxtr 2y ago

Your post is actually a form of marketing. Marketing for a certain idea, world view. Some may agree, others won’t. That’s what we do as species. We talk, we collaborate, we argue, we market.

adalacelove 2y ago
I don't think so. For me the real test is whether or not someone is giving me a monetary incentive. The very act of having to pay someone to say something increases the probability of it being a lie
- baxtr 2y ago
  For me the real test is whether or not someone is trying to persuade other human beings towards a certain action. An action that is favourable for you. This can be monetary of course. But this could also be ballot vote on election day. This could be a change in behaviour of people to drive less cars, but take the train instead. Or convince people that advertising should be banned for large corporates. Marketing is the art and science of achieving behavioural changes to your benefit.
  - defrost 2y ago
    Most in the ad game would see it as claiming behavioural changes to the benefit of clients in exchange for cash and reputation. Marketing is as much about selling a vision to a client as it is about moving the public. There are plenty of pointless rebranding campaigns.
  - barnabee 2y ago
    > For me the real test is whether or not someone is trying to persuade other human beings towards a certain action. An action that is favourable for you. I think the test for me, at least for the kind of marketing/advertising that should be banned, is the passiveness of it. If, while going through my day, I am interrupted by your billboard, banner ad, spam email, promotional app notification, street marketing person, etc. in an attempt to manipulate me into action, that is the thing that should be illegal. If I walk into a shop and say "I'm looking for a camera", invite a business in to pitch for work, call somoene up for a quote, directly enter a query like "buy camera uk" into a search engine, etc. then I think that is ok. I have asked to be sold to, and I am mentally prepared for the fact of that happening (notwithstanding that certain techniques should maybe also not be allowed).
    - baxtr 2y ago
      Ok I agree with that. Attention intrusion is a bad thing. It’s the worst form of advertising I’d argue.
  - adalacelove 2y ago
    Yes, we are always trying to have some effects on other people's behavior, but I don't think most people would say it's marketing. And maybe most important, quantity is a quality on itself. So, me as an individual trying to persuade another individual is a total different game than a big corporation trying to persuade millions of people. To give a more clear cut example, me having a look on the street is very different to mass surveillance.
    - baxtr 2y ago
      Of course it’s convenient to define it the way it best fits your argument. I don’t blame you for that. Quantity is of course relevant. But then again big corporations can do ANYTHING at a bigger scale than you and me.
switch007 2y ago
That's exactly something a marketing person would say
- baxtr 2y ago
  Trust me, I’m a nerd ;)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
account42 2y ago
The difference is that people come to the comment section here to read opinions on the subject of the article. People don't go on a highway drive just to learn about what lawyers and and casinos are available. I'm sure you can also understand the difference between a catalogue listing on-topic producs and unprompted signage.
- baxtr 2y ago
  Show HN is also a big part of HN. Karma will you get more status and increase the likelihood of posts being upvoted. There are many guides online how to rank on HN in order to market your startup. HN comments have influenced my thinking and my subsequent actions quite heavily in the past years. The line you’re drawing is super thin and only theoretical.

by baxtr 2y ago

Your post is actually a form of marketing. Marketing for a certain idea, world view. Some may agree, others won’t. That’s what we do as species. We talk, we collaborate, we argue, we market.

adalacelove 2y ago

I don't think so. For me the real test is whether or not someone is giving me a monetary incentive. The very act of having to pay someone to say something increases the probability of it being a lie

baxtr 2y ago
For me the real test is whether or not someone is trying to persuade other human beings towards a certain action. An action that is favourable for you. This can be monetary of course. But this could also be ballot vote on election day. This could be a change in behaviour of people to drive less cars, but take the train instead. Or convince people that advertising should be banned for large corporates. Marketing is the art and science of achieving behavioural changes to your benefit.
- defrost 2y ago
  Most in the ad game would see it as claiming behavioural changes to the benefit of clients in exchange for cash and reputation. Marketing is as much about selling a vision to a client as it is about moving the public. There are plenty of pointless rebranding campaigns.
- barnabee 2y ago
  > For me the real test is whether or not someone is trying to persuade other human beings towards a certain action. An action that is favourable for you. I think the test for me, at least for the kind of marketing/advertising that should be banned, is the passiveness of it. If, while going through my day, I am interrupted by your billboard, banner ad, spam email, promotional app notification, street marketing person, etc. in an attempt to manipulate me into action, that is the thing that should be illegal. If I walk into a shop and say "I'm looking for a camera", invite a business in to pitch for work, call somoene up for a quote, directly enter a query like "buy camera uk" into a search engine, etc. then I think that is ok. I have asked to be sold to, and I am mentally prepared for the fact of that happening (notwithstanding that certain techniques should maybe also not be allowed).
  - baxtr 2y ago
    Ok I agree with that. Attention intrusion is a bad thing. It’s the worst form of advertising I’d argue.
- adalacelove 2y ago
  Yes, we are always trying to have some effects on other people's behavior, but I don't think most people would say it's marketing. And maybe most important, quantity is a quality on itself. So, me as an individual trying to persuade another individual is a total different game than a big corporation trying to persuade millions of people. To give a more clear cut example, me having a look on the street is very different to mass surveillance.
  - baxtr 2y ago
    Of course it’s convenient to define it the way it best fits your argument. I don’t blame you for that. Quantity is of course relevant. But then again big corporations can do ANYTHING at a bigger scale than you and me.

switch007 2y ago

That's exactly something a marketing person would say

baxtr 2y ago
Trust me, I’m a nerd ;)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

account42 2y ago

The difference is that people come to the comment section here to read opinions on the subject of the article. People don't go on a highway drive just to learn about what lawyers and and casinos are available. I'm sure you can also understand the difference between a catalogue listing on-topic producs and unprompted signage.

baxtr 2y ago
Show HN is also a big part of HN. Karma will you get more status and increase the likelihood of posts being upvoted. There are many guides online how to rank on HN in order to market your startup. HN comments have influenced my thinking and my subsequent actions quite heavily in the past years. The line you’re drawing is super thin and only theoretical.