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PornHub is free. There are no laws against leaving porn where a minor might find it. Arguably, the websites are being held to different standards. You can go in

by dTal 2y ago

PornHub is free. There are no laws against leaving porn where a minor might find it. Arguably, the websites are being held to different standards. You can go into Barnes and Noble and find all kinds of filthy books, and they're not locked behind a glass display cabinet requiring a clerk to check your ID.

anon291 2y ago
This is a lot different than leaving porn somewhere. PornHub is advertising on their porn websites. Leaving porn is equivalent to leaving pornhub open inadvertently (I.e., an adult opened it, was advertised to, and didn't close it). Pornhub is earning money from the porn. Huge difference. Pornhub intends to show its content to minors. In the case where someone leaves it inadvertently, it's an accident (like finding Dad's hidden store of playboys). And yes, in general, leaving porn intentionally where some kids may find it is illegal (and a sex crime!). For example, in California, It's CA penal code 288.2 (https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-288-2/ https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-288-2/). If the purpose of pornhub is to arouse, then pornhub providing its services to a child is illegal in California and many other states. The only way it's not already illegal is if pornhub is going to claim it's not meant to arouse (I mean come on... really?) I'm honestly shocked this is even controversial. What's going on here is that the law is actually already being broken in most states, including liberal California; but the state governments are unable to enforce it. The laws in Texas et al make it enforceable and clear, as it should be. I'm not some prude. I don't think these things should be banned outright, but it seems obvious to me that there's every interest in preventing children from viewing it. First of all children under a certain age should never be exposed to this stuff and if they are, it should frankly be investigated. Secondly, it can be harmful to minors to view porn, as evidenced by many studies on the matter.
- dTal 2y ago
  I agree with you that ideally kids would not be browsing PornHub. I'm not sure that requiring PornHub to de anonymize you is a good or proportionate solution. It seems to me that a major driver of intuition here is whether a website is a "transaction of service", or simply a thing that you can look at if you go to a certain place. PornHub is large and complex and prints t-shirts, and so perhaps intuitively they feel like a "service". But what if I write a silly little piece of erotica and host it as a plain txt file on my pokey little personal website, behind a link that says "click here for my silly piece of erotica (18+ only pls!)". Should I be legally compelled to collect and store people's personal information over that? Should it really be illegal to put arousing material on a public facing webserver?
  - anon291 2y ago
    There is no requirement of de-anonymization. This is a trick PH is pulling to make people want to let them show anyone porn. The requirement is they verify ages. They can do this by hiring staff to video chat with potential users and ask them to show an ID. There is no requirement that they require scanned copies of the ID cards. This is all a trick to make you against this bill. Alternatively, Pornhub can partner with physical storefronts and create a system so that your local corner store can verify you for a fee. Either way, that's on them to figure out. > Should it really be illegal to put arousing material on a public facing webserver? If it's in a place easily discoverable by teenagers and you're fighting for the ability to show it to teenagers and children, then yes, it should actually be illegal. That's the diference between no-name you doing it and pornhub. Pornhub is well-known and anyone can find it. It's discussed in various publications. Any kid can know what it is and go look for it. It's like if you brewed beer for yourself and left it on your property... fine. But if you're Budweiser, you can't just leave your beer in a cooler in a park and then wash your hands of the responsibility of not selling to minors. Yes, we expect more from more sophisticated market participants. That's hardly something to clutch pearls over.
    - choo-t 2y ago
      > There is no requirement of de-anonymization. […] They can do this by hiring staff to video chat with potential users and ask them to show an ID. What you are describing is de-anonymization. > Alternatively, Pornhub can partner with physical storefronts and create a system so that your local corner store can verify you for a fee. Dito. Plus you now have to announce to your local shop your porn consumption. I have no idea of your local customs, but it's not a subject commonly talked about with the grocery cashier here.
      - anon291 2y ago
        > Dito. Plus you now have to announce to your local shop your porn consumption. I have no idea of your local customs, but it's not a subject commonly talked about with the grocery cashier here. No different than having to buy porn magazines at your local corner store.... And that's the point. If you include having to present yourself to someone, never in history has there ever been a presumption of complete anonymity. That's a made up right. In general, if you're embarrassed to tell someone else what you're doing you probably shouldn't do it.

by dTal 2y ago

anon291 2y ago

This is a lot different than leaving porn somewhere. PornHub is advertising on their porn websites. Leaving porn is equivalent to leaving pornhub open inadvertently (I.e., an adult opened it, was advertised to, and didn't close it). Pornhub is earning money from the porn. Huge difference. Pornhub intends to show its content to minors. In the case where someone leaves it inadvertently, it's an accident (like finding Dad's hidden store of playboys). And yes, in general, leaving porn intentionally where some kids may find it is illegal (and a sex crime!). For example, in California, It's CA penal code 288.2 (https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-288-2/ https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-288-2/). If the purpose of pornhub is to arouse, then pornhub providing its services to a child is illegal in California and many other states. The only way it's not already illegal is if pornhub is going to claim it's not meant to arouse (I mean come on... really?) I'm honestly shocked this is even controversial. What's going on here is that the law is actually already being broken in most states, including liberal California; but the state governments are unable to enforce it. The laws in Texas et al make it enforceable and clear, as it should be. I'm not some prude. I don't think these things should be banned outright, but it seems obvious to me that there's every interest in preventing children from viewing it. First of all children under a certain age should never be exposed to this stuff and if they are, it should frankly be investigated. Secondly, it can be harmful to minors to view porn, as evidenced by many studies on the matter.

dTal 2y ago
I agree with you that ideally kids would not be browsing PornHub. I'm not sure that requiring PornHub to de anonymize you is a good or proportionate solution. It seems to me that a major driver of intuition here is whether a website is a "transaction of service", or simply a thing that you can look at if you go to a certain place. PornHub is large and complex and prints t-shirts, and so perhaps intuitively they feel like a "service". But what if I write a silly little piece of erotica and host it as a plain txt file on my pokey little personal website, behind a link that says "click here for my silly piece of erotica (18+ only pls!)". Should I be legally compelled to collect and store people's personal information over that? Should it really be illegal to put arousing material on a public facing webserver?
- anon291 2y ago
  There is no requirement of de-anonymization. This is a trick PH is pulling to make people want to let them show anyone porn. The requirement is they verify ages. They can do this by hiring staff to video chat with potential users and ask them to show an ID. There is no requirement that they require scanned copies of the ID cards. This is all a trick to make you against this bill. Alternatively, Pornhub can partner with physical storefronts and create a system so that your local corner store can verify you for a fee. Either way, that's on them to figure out. > Should it really be illegal to put arousing material on a public facing webserver? If it's in a place easily discoverable by teenagers and you're fighting for the ability to show it to teenagers and children, then yes, it should actually be illegal. That's the diference between no-name you doing it and pornhub. Pornhub is well-known and anyone can find it. It's discussed in various publications. Any kid can know what it is and go look for it. It's like if you brewed beer for yourself and left it on your property... fine. But if you're Budweiser, you can't just leave your beer in a cooler in a park and then wash your hands of the responsibility of not selling to minors. Yes, we expect more from more sophisticated market participants. That's hardly something to clutch pearls over.
  - choo-t 2y ago
    > There is no requirement of de-anonymization. […] They can do this by hiring staff to video chat with potential users and ask them to show an ID. What you are describing is de-anonymization. > Alternatively, Pornhub can partner with physical storefronts and create a system so that your local corner store can verify you for a fee. Dito. Plus you now have to announce to your local shop your porn consumption. I have no idea of your local customs, but it's not a subject commonly talked about with the grocery cashier here.
    - anon291 2y ago
      > Dito. Plus you now have to announce to your local shop your porn consumption. I have no idea of your local customs, but it's not a subject commonly talked about with the grocery cashier here. No different than having to buy porn magazines at your local corner store.... And that's the point. If you include having to present yourself to someone, never in history has there ever been a presumption of complete anonymity. That's a made up right. In general, if you're embarrassed to tell someone else what you're doing you probably shouldn't do it.