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The reason they want this is so they can (1) eliminate it and (2) publicly shame those that use it when details are leaked or the zeitgeist swings even further

The reason they want this is so they can (1) eliminate it and (2) publicly shame those that use it when details are leaked or the zeitgeist swings even further in their favor. The solution is for parents to be mindful of their children and not allow them to use the internet without supervision. We shouldn't become a nanny state or a spy state because of bad parenting.

PessimalDecimal 2y ago
I'm generally sympathetic to not allowing negligent parenting to encourage "nanny state" regulations to be put into place. But the meat space equivalent to the age verification here seems to be something like age verification for buying alcohol, tobacco, or a firearm. Would we not want to verify a potential purchaser's age because "the solution is for parents to be mindful of their children and not allow them to buy firearms/tobacco/booze without supervision"? My guess is fewer people would be onboard with that. What's the difference?
- janetmissed 2y ago
  The difference is showing my id to a minimum wage liquor store worker for a few seconds vs giving my id to a company and trusting them to store it indefinatly and tying my internet presence to my actual identify all for a law that would be at best a minor hinderance for underaged people wanting to access pornography
  - PessimalDecimal 2y ago
    Many state issued IDs are now machine readable. I've had my ID scanned when I went to buy some beer before. I assume I trusted them to store it indefinitely, tying my real-world presence to my actual identity to comply with a law that is a minor hindrance to underage people wanting to access alcohol. (I don't know if the person who scanned my ID made minimum wage, though. Probably.)
- michaelmrose 2y ago
  Guns blow your heads off or 20-50 of your least favored classmates and alcohol and tobacco kill millions and young people are very vulnerable to addiction. It's not clear that there is a similar effect from seeing boobs.
  - PessimalDecimal 2y ago
    You've set up a strawman argument. If viewing pornography on the internet only meant "seeing boobs," age verification surely wouldn't have gained as much traction as it has in the US and UK. But there's a lot more than that. It's disingenuous to ignore that fact.
    - michaelmrose 2y ago
      Please quantify the dangers of pornography and explain why site level age verification is a better option vs device level blocking available to parents.
creata 2y ago
> The solution is for parents to be mindful of their children and not allow them to use the internet without supervision. I hate carrying water for these shitty laws, but I don't think it's possible to stop a sufficiently motivated child from obtaining unfettered access to the Internet. I don't think it's about "bad parenting".
- techjamie 2y ago
  Even if you take VPNs out of the equation, all you're going to do is push people towards other sites that don't care. There's no shortage of websites that offer porn that people can just go to instead. The only people that you're going to remotely stop are the most tech illiterate possible that don't understand they can just go to the next site in the search. You know, the ones with basically no press attention that have lax moderation policies and allow basically anything through.
robertlagrant 2y ago
> The solution is for parents to be mindful of their children and not allow them to use the internet without supervision. You're missing it. It's not just your own kids. It's your kids going to their friend's house and their friend's older sibling showing them something. And this is a one-way street. They can't unsee things they're too young for. > We shouldn't become a nanny state or a spy state because of bad parenting. You should see all the social services infrastructure designed to protect children from bad (or worse) parents.

PessimalDecimal 2y ago

I'm generally sympathetic to not allowing negligent parenting to encourage "nanny state" regulations to be put into place. But the meat space equivalent to the age verification here seems to be something like age verification for buying alcohol, tobacco, or a firearm. Would we not want to verify a potential purchaser's age because "the solution is for parents to be mindful of their children and not allow them to buy firearms/tobacco/booze without supervision"? My guess is fewer people would be onboard with that. What's the difference?

janetmissed 2y ago
The difference is showing my id to a minimum wage liquor store worker for a few seconds vs giving my id to a company and trusting them to store it indefinatly and tying my internet presence to my actual identify all for a law that would be at best a minor hinderance for underaged people wanting to access pornography
- PessimalDecimal 2y ago
  Many state issued IDs are now machine readable. I've had my ID scanned when I went to buy some beer before. I assume I trusted them to store it indefinitely, tying my real-world presence to my actual identity to comply with a law that is a minor hindrance to underage people wanting to access alcohol. (I don't know if the person who scanned my ID made minimum wage, though. Probably.)
michaelmrose 2y ago
Guns blow your heads off or 20-50 of your least favored classmates and alcohol and tobacco kill millions and young people are very vulnerable to addiction. It's not clear that there is a similar effect from seeing boobs.
- PessimalDecimal 2y ago
  You've set up a strawman argument. If viewing pornography on the internet only meant "seeing boobs," age verification surely wouldn't have gained as much traction as it has in the US and UK. But there's a lot more than that. It's disingenuous to ignore that fact.
  - michaelmrose 2y ago
    Please quantify the dangers of pornography and explain why site level age verification is a better option vs device level blocking available to parents.

creata 2y ago

> The solution is for parents to be mindful of their children and not allow them to use the internet without supervision. I hate carrying water for these shitty laws, but I don't think it's possible to stop a sufficiently motivated child from obtaining unfettered access to the Internet. I don't think it's about "bad parenting".

techjamie 2y ago
Even if you take VPNs out of the equation, all you're going to do is push people towards other sites that don't care. There's no shortage of websites that offer porn that people can just go to instead. The only people that you're going to remotely stop are the most tech illiterate possible that don't understand they can just go to the next site in the search. You know, the ones with basically no press attention that have lax moderation policies and allow basically anything through.

robertlagrant 2y ago

> The solution is for parents to be mindful of their children and not allow them to use the internet without supervision. You're missing it. It's not just your own kids. It's your kids going to their friend's house and their friend's older sibling showing them something. And this is a one-way street. They can't unsee things they're too young for. > We shouldn't become a nanny state or a spy state because of bad parenting. You should see all the social services infrastructure designed to protect children from bad (or worse) parents.