3 ms·

As I've said, we don't really because union busting is not only allowed but expected. The reality is that employers should not have such autonomy. What you're

As I've said, we don't really because union busting is not only allowed but expected. The reality is that employers should not have such autonomy. What you're arguing is the right for an employer to necessarily hold more leverage in negotiation as opposed to workers. Which... isn't a right. It's an anti-right. As in, you want less rights for workers. Unions only work if they're enforced. Just like a right to life implies an anti-right to kill, a right to fair negotiations implies an anti-right for employers to choose not to negotiate with unions.

hellojesus 2y ago
> What you're arguing is the right for an employer to necessarily hold more leverage in negotiation as opposed to workers. Which... isn't a right. It's an anti-right. As in, you want less rights for workers. No. My argument is that forcing companies to only negotiate with unions if that isn't want the company wants to do is an anti-right. It violates free trade. You disallow entity A from negotiating with entity B because entity C doesn't like it. > Just like a right to life implies an anti-right to kill, a right to fair negotiations implies an anti-right for employers to choose not to negotiate with unions. My point above is illustrated here. Person A being alive doesn't impact person B being alive, or person C being alive. Disallowing entity A from negotiating with entity B as entity C means that you are now infringing on entity A and entity B as an external third party. As entity C, you would be perfectly within reason to inform entity A you will not trade with them if they do not negotiate through entity D or if they negotiate with any of your peers through any channel other than entity D. Entity A would get to decide if you offer more value. But to be entities X, Y, Z and disallow entities A and B from trade is anti-rights.
- consteval 2y ago
  Unions aren't an external third party, that's where this idea falls apart. If an employee wants to work without a hard hat, and the employer also wants the employee to work without a hard hat, but OSHA says no, is that more or less rights? The naive answer is less rights - well the employee wants to! In practice, this manifests as pressure. Soon no employees wear hard hats. And they're denied the right to a safe working environment. I argue its MORE rights. Because we give the employee, and employer, the right to a safe working environment. Meaning, if we want employees to have the right to fair negotiations, we have to restrict employers.
  - hellojesus 2y ago
    My belief stats simply that the employees that want to wear hard hats seek employment elsewhere. Combined with much higher private insurance rates, it's unlikely that the business without hardhats would remain competitively priced. Edit: OSHA would truly be a third party here. A union is a first party. Also: I believe OSHA is unconstitutional.

hellojesus 2y ago

> What you're arguing is the right for an employer to necessarily hold more leverage in negotiation as opposed to workers. Which... isn't a right. It's an anti-right. As in, you want less rights for workers. No. My argument is that forcing companies to only negotiate with unions if that isn't want the company wants to do is an anti-right. It violates free trade. You disallow entity A from negotiating with entity B because entity C doesn't like it. > Just like a right to life implies an anti-right to kill, a right to fair negotiations implies an anti-right for employers to choose not to negotiate with unions. My point above is illustrated here. Person A being alive doesn't impact person B being alive, or person C being alive. Disallowing entity A from negotiating with entity B as entity C means that you are now infringing on entity A and entity B as an external third party. As entity C, you would be perfectly within reason to inform entity A you will not trade with them if they do not negotiate through entity D or if they negotiate with any of your peers through any channel other than entity D. Entity A would get to decide if you offer more value. But to be entities X, Y, Z and disallow entities A and B from trade is anti-rights.

consteval 2y ago
Unions aren't an external third party, that's where this idea falls apart. If an employee wants to work without a hard hat, and the employer also wants the employee to work without a hard hat, but OSHA says no, is that more or less rights? The naive answer is less rights - well the employee wants to! In practice, this manifests as pressure. Soon no employees wear hard hats. And they're denied the right to a safe working environment. I argue its MORE rights. Because we give the employee, and employer, the right to a safe working environment. Meaning, if we want employees to have the right to fair negotiations, we have to restrict employers.
- hellojesus 2y ago
  My belief stats simply that the employees that want to wear hard hats seek employment elsewhere. Combined with much higher private insurance rates, it's unlikely that the business without hardhats would remain competitively priced. Edit: OSHA would truly be a third party here. A union is a first party. Also: I believe OSHA is unconstitutional.