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> Though, while we differ in our perceptions of what has been attempted, and how sincerely those efforts were made - we agree on solutions. The solutions requir

> Though, while we differ in our perceptions of what has been attempted, and how sincerely those efforts were made - we agree on solutions. The solutions require serious efforts from a very empowered local community (which would imply state funding to support those efforts). I live in Northern California in the middle of ground zero for this issue. Ten years ago I would have agreed fully with what you wrote. But since then I've been paying very close attention to how this has all unfolded at the state, regional and local levels. I also happen to have a lot of social contacts who work at the city and country levels in the agencies directly responsible for dealing with homelessness, ranging from social workers to funding agencies to law enforcement. Based on what I've seen in my community, in the media and what my friends who are directly involved have told me privately (which is more frank and somewhat different than what their agencies say publicly), my opinion has changed. Most fundamentally, I now understand that "homelessness" shouldn't ever be thought of as a single issue because there are vastly different kinds with different causes, consequences, costs and possibility of remedies. Most of the serious societal problems related to homelessness come from the particular subset which are chronically unhoused and treatment resistant, primarily due to chronic substance abuse and mental illness. Sadly, for many of this type, there are no consistently effective solutions - and no amount of funding can reliably solve it at scale - because any lasting solution requires first solving the underlying chronic addiction and/or mental illness. Unfortunately, these are wickedly complex, deeply individual problems and lasting solutions require making difficult "no win, lesser of evils" choices more related to morality than politics. Respecting an individual's right of self-determination can quickly conflict with their right to choose self-destruction. I now understand that there ARE no "good solutions" to this type of chronic homelessness. Even if you or I were anointed "king of the world" and given virtually unlimited funding, at best, things might be a little better but the fundamental underlying causes would still remain unsolved. All solutions which might make a substantial, long-term improvement on chronic addiction and mental illness at scale involve moral positions I could not personally enforce on other people, such as forced treatment, conditionally withholding treatment or actively enabling essentially "slow-motion suicide" (as a social worker friend of mine called it).

seadan83 2y ago
Thank you for the discussion. I think there is a lot to be said for housing-first answers that could help many people, but won't necessarily help everyone. You raise good points that context matters. One thing I've thought of since this conversation started is the lacking context. Specifically that most homeless people are not living in the streets. Cars, hotels, friends - those are the most used resources for those that lose their housing. Clearly thing like effective drug treatment are not going to help a family that just failed to pay rent, the person that is now sleeping in their car for the first time. The needed answers are varied. My point is that without money behind those answers, it's a non-solution. Except, I have learned in this discussion how far from sufficient that is. Which is to say, backing programs with real funding is necessary but not sufficient to arrive to a solution.
- mrandish 2y ago
  Yes, context matters. Some things I learned about the region I live in from the people who run the programs in our county is that there are beds available in shelters every night that go empty. A friend that's police chief in a neighboring town which has a fairly significant number persistently homeless men living on the streets explained that he has a large and well-funded team of specially trained officers dedicated to working with the homeless in their town. These officers know most of these men by name and know where they generally camp. The officers regularly check in on them, educate them on the shelters and services available and rarely ever arrest them - unless there's specific trouble reported like petty crime, assault or something like harassing people on the street (especially kids, for which there's zero tolerance). These homeless guys know there are shelters but those shelters obviously can't let them do drugs in the shelter and they can't let anyone stay who harasses other residents in the shelter, so they choose not to go to the shelter. He also told me the number one source of calls they get reporting homeless trouble come from their "regular" long-term homeless calling the police because a new homeless person is causing trouble like stealing from or fighting other homeless people or committing crime or perhaps behaving erratically due to mental illness. These "regular" homeless call and report this because they know sufficient disruption brings "heat" down since the police will have to respond. In fact, the "regulars" have the direct mobile phone numbers of officers on the homeless team just for this purpose. I asked my friend about the scenario where a single-mom loses her job suddenly, can't make rent and ends up sleeping in her car with a kid. He told me when that happens, his officers have a budget to put that newly homeless, non-violent, non-addicted person up in a local hotel and they do it immediately, that night. No paperwork, no trip to the station. They get them off the street ASAP and then coordinate with local halfway houses which have dedicated family space and specific programs to put these at-risk people back in jobs and get them on a path to stability again. They act quickly because they've learned there's a limited window of time where they can get a newly homeless person turned around with high probability of success. I can't speak to every locale in California but in our region at least, I now understand the primary issue behind persistent, problematic homelessness is not lack of beds or lack of funding. Non-violent, non-addicted people here have options and if someone wants help and is willing to abide by a few minimal rules (primarily to prevent harm to others seeking help), there is ample help available.

seadan83 2y ago

Thank you for the discussion. I think there is a lot to be said for housing-first answers that could help many people, but won't necessarily help everyone. You raise good points that context matters. One thing I've thought of since this conversation started is the lacking context. Specifically that most homeless people are not living in the streets. Cars, hotels, friends - those are the most used resources for those that lose their housing. Clearly thing like effective drug treatment are not going to help a family that just failed to pay rent, the person that is now sleeping in their car for the first time. The needed answers are varied. My point is that without money behind those answers, it's a non-solution. Except, I have learned in this discussion how far from sufficient that is. Which is to say, backing programs with real funding is necessary but not sufficient to arrive to a solution.

mrandish 2y ago
Yes, context matters. Some things I learned about the region I live in from the people who run the programs in our county is that there are beds available in shelters every night that go empty. A friend that's police chief in a neighboring town which has a fairly significant number persistently homeless men living on the streets explained that he has a large and well-funded team of specially trained officers dedicated to working with the homeless in their town. These officers know most of these men by name and know where they generally camp. The officers regularly check in on them, educate them on the shelters and services available and rarely ever arrest them - unless there's specific trouble reported like petty crime, assault or something like harassing people on the street (especially kids, for which there's zero tolerance). These homeless guys know there are shelters but those shelters obviously can't let them do drugs in the shelter and they can't let anyone stay who harasses other residents in the shelter, so they choose not to go to the shelter. He also told me the number one source of calls they get reporting homeless trouble come from their "regular" long-term homeless calling the police because a new homeless person is causing trouble like stealing from or fighting other homeless people or committing crime or perhaps behaving erratically due to mental illness. These "regular" homeless call and report this because they know sufficient disruption brings "heat" down since the police will have to respond. In fact, the "regulars" have the direct mobile phone numbers of officers on the homeless team just for this purpose. I asked my friend about the scenario where a single-mom loses her job suddenly, can't make rent and ends up sleeping in her car with a kid. He told me when that happens, his officers have a budget to put that newly homeless, non-violent, non-addicted person up in a local hotel and they do it immediately, that night. No paperwork, no trip to the station. They get them off the street ASAP and then coordinate with local halfway houses which have dedicated family space and specific programs to put these at-risk people back in jobs and get them on a path to stability again. They act quickly because they've learned there's a limited window of time where they can get a newly homeless person turned around with high probability of success. I can't speak to every locale in California but in our region at least, I now understand the primary issue behind persistent, problematic homelessness is not lack of beds or lack of funding. Non-violent, non-addicted people here have options and if someone wants help and is willing to abide by a few minimal rules (primarily to prevent harm to others seeking help), there is ample help available.