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Japanese restaurants: "not charging tourists more, just charging locals less"
- JohnFen 2y ago> He maintains that he doesn’t charge tourists extra. Instead, he offers a 1,000 yen ($6.50) discount to locals. I've seen businesses in the US use the exact same "logic". It's disingenuous because there's zero logical difference between charging party A more than party B and charging party B less than party A. > “We need (this pricing system) for cost reasons,” Yonemitsu said. I understand the practice and genuinely think it's perfectly acceptable. But to explain it in that way is deceptive.
- gweinberg 2y agoYou are correct of course. People fool themselves by pretending there is such a thing as the "regular price" and saying it's okay to charge some people less than the regular price, but not to charge more than the regular price. But really there is no regular price, just the different prices paid by different groups.
- ksec 2y ago>But to explain it in that way is deceptive. Staff discount. Is it really staff discount or charging regular customer more?
- JohnFen 2y agoBoth ways of looking at it are equivalent, in my view.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mc32 2y agoThere is a difference though. The iconic example from Ninotschka is man walks into a coffee shop and asks for coffee without milk, server says we’re all out of milk but have cream. Black coffee is black coffee, but what matters is the act of saying no to something. Sublation is not equal to something not existing or being.
- tedunangst 2y agoI don't understand the coffee story.
- phito 2y agoMe neither, read it about 5 times...
- zem 2y agoman asks for coffee without milk that implies the existence of coffee with milk. however the cafe is all out of milk - but they do have cream! would the customer perchance like some coffee without cream instead?
- tedunangst 2y agoStill have no idea how that demonstrates the importance of saying no.
- zem 2y agoit doesn't, it's just a joke/koan
- mc32 2y agoLet's say Jane is throwing a party for friends and intentionally didn't invite her friend Joe. Or she could have simply not have held the party at all. In either case, Joe is not attending the party, but in one scenario Joe might feel left out, insulted, etc.
- amy-petrik-214 2y agoTo me there is actually a logical difference from a game theory perspective, ignoring ethics: A seeming native is a "likely potential regular customer." So you offer a lower price per visit, but in the long run make lots of money from so many visits. A seeming foreigner is a "likely never to return customer." So there's an incentive to screw over the customer and profit-max, no downside since they weren't returning anyway. So there is this universal capitalistic incentive to over price the Gweilo. Of course a way to soften this is to invoke capitalism again and allow competition to drop prices. But then this dives into things like price elasticity for tourists versus natives, and how clientele feel about tourists. If the local clientele are xenophobic the bar may even expel those they don't like much less charge a higher price, and from a capitalistic perspective this may be a tactic to retain ongoing regular customers. I would argue this type of reasoning is seen throughout many fields. For example, anything involving money and the field of medicine has wildly all over the place made up pricing. I would argue in all cases, this is in fact scummy, and the solution would be to mandate a clear pricing schedule (specifically with criteria on if and when different people are charged different prices) and thus open information availability to inform the customer. Tourists can then voluntarily say "I really want the food here, I'll pay the premium" or voluntarily say "on principle this is unfair, I'll vote with my feet and go to the even-priced competitor" There are various discounts for things like senior citizens and military and such throughout, so none of this is a new idea.
- shiroiushi 2y ago>For example, anything involving money and the field of medicine has wildly all over the place made up pricing. Only in America. In countries with better healthcare systems, prices are fixed or very regular. >I would argue in all cases, this is in fact scummy, and the solution would be to mandate a clear pricing schedule (specifically with criteria on if and when different people are charged different prices) and thus open information availability to inform the customer. In the few places in Japan currently doing this, AFAICT, they do print it clearly. So far, it just seems to be a few places that then get lots of media attention.
- ElevenLathe 2y agoLots of bars have "happy hour all day" except during peak hours, like 7-9. I submit that they don't actually have a happy hour, but instead a sad hour. Waiting for somebody to propose legislation to require that they market it this way.
- tamimio 2y agoInstead of looking into a two-tier payment system to try in North America, because I assume that’s the whole purpose of this article, how about copying the Japanese model on tipping? It’s out of hand here; even fast food places like Five Guys and Subway ask for a tip!
- dyauspitr 2y agoHow would you even pull off a two tier system in the US. In Japan, they probably visually determine if you’re a foreigner based on race or language. That’s would be impossible in the US.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago“Show state ID, driver’s license, passport, or voter registration for discount.” Could also ask to scan the state ID/driver's license 2D barcode as part of your discount program [1], which all 50 states have. [1] https://www.idscanner.com/knowledge-base/coverage-chart/ https://www.idscanner.com/knowledge-base/coverage-chart/
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- ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago>Could also ask to scan the state ID/driver's license 2D barcode as part of your discount program [1], which all 50 states have. Privacy? What's that, and why would we want it?
- toomuchtodo 2y agoThe comment inquired how it could be done, not if it was a good idea, or consumer and privacy friendly. I do not recommend!
- coro365 2y agoWhy not set up a system where travelers who feel they have benefited from the weak yen can voluntarily pay tips? That would be more moderate.
- coro365 2y agoThere may have been a misunderstanding when I said "tips", what I meant to say was a donation to the restaurant. Even if the donation is zero cents, it doesn't make the accountant cranky. (deepl translate jp=>en)
- coro365 2y agoOr (deceptive as it may be), it would still be less blatant to support local customers by giving them discount coupons if they come 10 times!
- chopin 2y agoPaying a tip is an offence in Japan.
- whalesalad 2y agoIn hawaii this is called a kama'aina discount, been going on forever.
- gtvwill 2y agoThat's wild. Astounding such behaviour exists in modern times. I wonder if anyone has made a list of such establishments so that tourists could avoid unfair price gouging/being rorted while on holiday. It's amazing folks write off treating customers unfairly just because their from a different town and a "tourist". Gross af.
- Ductapemaster 2y agoIf people are willing to pay it, is it really so bad? Charging what the market will bear is a core capitalist principle and seems like good business to me.
- krapp 2y agoAnd if the tourists are from colonizer countries it's even good karma.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoSo is that okay at your grocery store, with your public utility, with employment, with buying a car, etc? I would prefer a system with equal charges for everyone, that is inherently not discriminatory Adding reply since I’m rate limited: I understand the “reality” with things like cars, but I’m asking if that’s what you want. A society where everything requires constant negotiation is not just exhausting but leaves lots of room for discrimination. Also regarding public utilities - I believe California recently proposed discriminatory pricing for utilities.
- krapp 2y agoGrocery stores have coupons and customer discounts, employees can make different wages doing the same job, and car dealers absolutely give deals to some clients that they won't give to others. Public utilities are an exception, and that's specifically because they're government regulated. But we're discussing commerce here and in commerce, prices are rarely the same for everyone.
- AcerbicZero 2y agoYou could always call them just-in-time tariffs? I don't like them personally, but I can certainly understand the desire to incentivize what you like, and disincentivize what you do not.
- darig 2y ago[dead]
- uwagar 2y agothis should be made illegal.
- klyrs 2y agoWhere
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoEverywhere
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- uwagar 2y agothis is like instead of saying 'coloured people not allowed here', a massive discount offered for white customers.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoI’ve seen similar schemes that try to take advantage of tourists or otherwise mistreat them, and it always feels discriminatory and negative. I see this the same way. And honestly it won’t serve the Japanese well since they already have a reputation for being rampantly xenophobic