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> Socialism does not mean central planning of a whole economy What other forms of semi-stable functional "socialism" are there? > have become meaningless to d

by qwytw 2y ago

> Socialism does not mean central planning of a whole economy What other forms of semi-stable functional "socialism" are there? > have become meaningless to discuss political and economical systems with the Discussing hypothetical pseudo-utopian systems like "socialism" or "communism" isn't particularly meaningful either (from the economics perspective, not philosophical). IMHO the problem with socialism is that it will pretty always be outcompeted by private ("capitalist") enterprises which can provide goods and services which are both higher quality and cheaper (yes by "underpaying" their workers but also they tend to be much more efficient). Therefore you can't really allow both in the system/country. So realistically "socialism" can only exist if the state suppresses any alternatives using various degrees of coercion and force. Since no real competition and by extension dissent can exist (i.e. nobody has enough resources to challenge the state without significantly damaging their career/status/wellbeing) the state ends up becoming more and more oppressive/controlling and unavoidable corrupt. I'd love to see any empirical evidence disproving this but as far as I can tell historically that's what always ended up happening.

Miner49er 2y ago
> What other forms of semi-stable functional "socialism" are there? Cooperatives. This article we're discussing here is advocating for socialism, it's just not using that word.
- qwytw 2y ago
  If cooperatives can survive and compete with private enterprises without excessive regulation and government coercion that limits and competition and leads to lower productivity that's great. As far as I can tell that's rarely (but probably occasionally) the case unless we're also including "guild" like organizations. However I'm not sure cooperatives are strictly a "form" of socialism, they have been a part of capitalist societies since pretty much the very beginning. I guess it depends where we draw the lines between partnerships etc. and cooperatives, I guess hiring additional workers who don't have an equal stake/share in the enterprise or subcontracting any sort of labor (let's say on a significantly meaningful scale, but still very hard to avoid) would be it.

by qwytw 2y ago

Miner49er 2y ago

> What other forms of semi-stable functional "socialism" are there? Cooperatives. This article we're discussing here is advocating for socialism, it's just not using that word.

qwytw 2y ago
If cooperatives can survive and compete with private enterprises without excessive regulation and government coercion that limits and competition and leads to lower productivity that's great. As far as I can tell that's rarely (but probably occasionally) the case unless we're also including "guild" like organizations. However I'm not sure cooperatives are strictly a "form" of socialism, they have been a part of capitalist societies since pretty much the very beginning. I guess it depends where we draw the lines between partnerships etc. and cooperatives, I guess hiring additional workers who don't have an equal stake/share in the enterprise or subcontracting any sort of labor (let's say on a significantly meaningful scale, but still very hard to avoid) would be it.