5 ms·

Does California have enough shelter space foe that? I would have assumed there wouldn't be a serious encampment problem if good shelters were available and empt

Does California have enough shelter space foe that? I would have assumed there wouldn't be a serious encampment problem if good shelters were available and empty.

nytesky 2y ago
Shelters have reduced privacy than your own tent, don’t allow drugs or alcohol. I’m unsure about how ‘relations’ work for unmarried people. It’s not like they get their own little studio apartment, and even then most would forbid illicit drugs. Given that many homeless are also dealing with addiction, there may be sufficient shelter space yet still they choose the freedom of a tent or street life. That all said, I would be surprised if there is enough capacity, but that is a solvable problem, probably not cheap.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- tracker1 2y ago
  Can't speak for other areas, but the Phoenix area's homeless definitely way too large for current shelter availability, not to mention the aversion most have for all the reasons stated. With most of California and a few other states seeing far worse numbers combined with illegal migrants it's reaching an impossible point. It'd be possible to build tiny/modular complexes, which would be very expensive (but CA spend tens of billions with nothing to show), that could stem some of the tide with a bit of effort. But it needs to be located close to reasonable public transportation to other areas where work can be found if/when people are ready to get off the drugs or otherwise get life together. That doesn't even begin to cover psychological and police needs. The amount of assault, rape and theft in homeless communities is massively disproportionate to the general public. There's also the medical needs, which are significant.
  - nytesky 2y ago
    There are probably vacant homes all around places like the Rust belt — as a nation we have probably sufficient housing for at least group homes. We need national funding, to get people housed and rehabilitated. Jobs are a nice idea, but having many relatives on disability, when your life has gone that far off course it just may not be feasible — but everyone benefits from them not living on the streets.
    - tracker1 2y ago
      So shipping people across the country, forcing them to move... Hasn't this country done that before? I don't think that's a good idea at all.
      - nytesky 2y ago
        Well we are heading to criminalizing homelessness, so it’s better than prison. I welcome alternatives but letting people setup encampments needs to be fixed.
      - paulmd 2y ago
        > So shipping people across the country, forcing them to move... Hasn't this country done that before? I mean yes, a lot of those people were literally shipped there from the rust belt or southern states. Famously Texas and company paying to bus or fly people to California and Massachusetts. I believe several of them were major press events etc - not a secret either. You are correct.
legitster 2y ago
This cannot be stated enough - homeless or otherwise people do not like staying in shelters. They are small, you cannot keep stuff there, and you have to follow rules. Camping represents the middle class of homelessness and is seen as a step up. It fulfills the desire for autonomy and is often the most comfortable long-term situation for people engaging in it.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Camping represents the middle class of homelessness and is seen as a step up. It fulfills the desire for autonomy and is often the most comfortable long-term situation for people engaging in it It also has negative externalities which cannot be ignored.
- seadan83 2y ago
  I think you undersell the "do not like staying in shelters" part. > you cannot keep stuff there If you are already low on belongings, having the rest of your stuff be stolen is not worth sleeping in a shelter Pets often cannot be kept in shelters. This is huge, give up your dog just to stay in a shelter for one night? > homeless or otherwise people do not like staying in shelters They are unpleasant and often unsafe. Theft & violence are common. Many have really gnarly intake processes where you wait in line for hours to only find out after nightfall if you are going to have space or not.
  - tracker1 2y ago
    +1 on all of the above... Shelters as they are, are a no-go for most homeless.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    Families are also often separated in shelters. For example a mother might be told that she and her daughter can stay, but her sons must go somewhere else to a 'men's shelter'. Parents are naturally going to want to stay with their kids.
    - 2y ago
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Does California have enough shelter space foe that? No. In 2023, California had about 180,000 homeless people [1] and fewer than 140,000 beds [2]. [1] https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-ahar-part-1.Pdf https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-... [2] https://homelessstrategy.com/how-many-total-temporary-and-permanent-supportive-beds-for-homeless-persons-are-there-in-california-and-how-many-are-participating-in-the-homeless-management-information-system/ https://homelessstrategy.com/how-many-total-temporary-and-pe...
- tracker1 2y ago
  I'd suggest the estimations for the number of homeless are low, even and that there are far more.

Does California have enough shelter space foe that? I would have assumed there wouldn't be a serious encampment problem if good shelters were available and empty.

nytesky 2y ago

Shelters have reduced privacy than your own tent, don’t allow drugs or alcohol. I’m unsure about how ‘relations’ work for unmarried people. It’s not like they get their own little studio apartment, and even then most would forbid illicit drugs. Given that many homeless are also dealing with addiction, there may be sufficient shelter space yet still they choose the freedom of a tent or street life. That all said, I would be surprised if there is enough capacity, but that is a solvable problem, probably not cheap.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tracker1 2y ago
Can't speak for other areas, but the Phoenix area's homeless definitely way too large for current shelter availability, not to mention the aversion most have for all the reasons stated. With most of California and a few other states seeing far worse numbers combined with illegal migrants it's reaching an impossible point. It'd be possible to build tiny/modular complexes, which would be very expensive (but CA spend tens of billions with nothing to show), that could stem some of the tide with a bit of effort. But it needs to be located close to reasonable public transportation to other areas where work can be found if/when people are ready to get off the drugs or otherwise get life together. That doesn't even begin to cover psychological and police needs. The amount of assault, rape and theft in homeless communities is massively disproportionate to the general public. There's also the medical needs, which are significant.
- nytesky 2y ago
  There are probably vacant homes all around places like the Rust belt — as a nation we have probably sufficient housing for at least group homes. We need national funding, to get people housed and rehabilitated. Jobs are a nice idea, but having many relatives on disability, when your life has gone that far off course it just may not be feasible — but everyone benefits from them not living on the streets.
  - tracker1 2y ago
    So shipping people across the country, forcing them to move... Hasn't this country done that before? I don't think that's a good idea at all.
    - nytesky 2y ago
      Well we are heading to criminalizing homelessness, so it’s better than prison. I welcome alternatives but letting people setup encampments needs to be fixed.
    - paulmd 2y ago
      > So shipping people across the country, forcing them to move... Hasn't this country done that before? I mean yes, a lot of those people were literally shipped there from the rust belt or southern states. Famously Texas and company paying to bus or fly people to California and Massachusetts. I believe several of them were major press events etc - not a secret either. You are correct.

legitster 2y ago

This cannot be stated enough - homeless or otherwise people do not like staying in shelters. They are small, you cannot keep stuff there, and you have to follow rules. Camping represents the middle class of homelessness and is seen as a step up. It fulfills the desire for autonomy and is often the most comfortable long-term situation for people engaging in it.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Camping represents the middle class of homelessness and is seen as a step up. It fulfills the desire for autonomy and is often the most comfortable long-term situation for people engaging in it It also has negative externalities which cannot be ignored.
seadan83 2y ago
I think you undersell the "do not like staying in shelters" part. > you cannot keep stuff there If you are already low on belongings, having the rest of your stuff be stolen is not worth sleeping in a shelter Pets often cannot be kept in shelters. This is huge, give up your dog just to stay in a shelter for one night? > homeless or otherwise people do not like staying in shelters They are unpleasant and often unsafe. Theft & violence are common. Many have really gnarly intake processes where you wait in line for hours to only find out after nightfall if you are going to have space or not.
- tracker1 2y ago
  +1 on all of the above... Shelters as they are, are a no-go for most homeless.
- autoexec 2y ago
  Families are also often separated in shelters. For example a mother might be told that she and her daughter can stay, but her sons must go somewhere else to a 'men's shelter'. Parents are naturally going to want to stay with their kids.
  - 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Does California have enough shelter space foe that? No. In 2023, California had about 180,000 homeless people [1] and fewer than 140,000 beds [2]. [1] https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-ahar-part-1.Pdf https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-... [2] https://homelessstrategy.com/how-many-total-temporary-and-permanent-supportive-beds-for-homeless-persons-are-there-in-california-and-how-many-are-participating-in-the-homeless-management-information-system/ https://homelessstrategy.com/how-many-total-temporary-and-pe...

tracker1 2y ago
I'd suggest the estimations for the number of homeless are low, even and that there are far more.