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Southwest Airlines Will End Its Longstanding Open-Seating Policy

14 points by vyrotek 2y ago

vundercind 2y ago
Making which seat you’ll get a mystery until check-in wasn’t much fun and made boarding slow. Glad to see it go. $50/seat for early boarding position, so it’s not like they weren’t already charging more for an aisle or window near the front.
- space_fountain 2y ago
  I've definitely heard claims that not having assigned seats speeds up boarding. There's some logic to both positions to me. Do you have any hard numbers?
  - kolbe 2y ago
    With a little googling, at the very least it's clear to me that some form of back-to-front is most efficient, and Southwest inevitably doesn't do that because the first people on want to be closest to the front in order to get off quicker.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      Southwest fills front to back and aisle and window before middle. It’s practically optimized to be bad.
      - kolbe 2y ago
        While this is true in theory, I don't know if it's been established in fact. There's some sort of rumor/myth/legend that Southwest's open seating is most efficient in practice, but I can't see any data to support this claim, and I'm dubious of it. The models don't cleanly capture things like breaking up families, adding confusion, etc. Southwest also has an interesting incentive structure where you're rewarded for being on time and getting into position with a better seat. While on other airlines, your incentive is the other way, where you'd prefer to stay off the plane as long as possible. I don't know the net practical effect.
        xscott 2y ago
        Another feature is that they let "parents with small children" board earlier in the process, so if you get on after that you can avoid sitting near the screaming, crying, and kicking seats.
      - readthenotes1 2y ago
        Southwest has the fastest turnaround times amongst the major US airlines, so there must be something wrong with theory. https://www.oag.com/blog/innovative-airline-operations-the-turnaround https://www.oag.com/blog/innovative-airline-operations-the-t...
    - space_fountain 2y ago
      Yes, but no airlines use this boarding flow. Most do more or less the worst boarding flow. They board front to back. Here's an article claiming southwest wins in the real world (https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/16/business/airline-boarding-process-explained/index.html#:~:text=Southwest%20Airlines%20has%20the%20fastest%20boarding%20process%20of%20any%20major%20airline%20by%20simply%20allowing%20people%20to%20claim%20the%20first%20available%20seat.%20It%20works%20because%20passengers%20spend%20less%20time%20waiting%20in%20the%20aisle%2C%20and%20have%20more%20freedom%20to%20sit%20where%20it%E2%80%99s%20least%20crowded https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/16/business/airline-boarding-pro...)
- mysterydip 2y ago
  The times I flew on southwest, boarding was just uncomfortable. Everyone who was already there was looking at you like "please don't sit next to us, we want our middle seat to stay empty" even knowing it's a full flight.
  - 123456atx 2y ago
    last time we were coming back from san diego my wife asked a lady near the front to move her bag so we could sit down. she was trying to take a whole row of seats to herself. When we asked her she looked at her partner across the aisle like we just farted in her face, she got up and they went to get a row in the back.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Oh yeah, if you’re on the later end of Group C it means you’re gonna be deciding which person to give the bad news to. It sucks.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
oldpersonintx 2y ago
tough break for all the people who optimized the cheat codes for boarding first the wheelchair hack was demoted to amateur hour, the pros moved on to a simple arm sling they could fold up and put in their pocket good riddance to a dumb policy
sickofparadox 2y ago
Extremely disappointed to hear this - Southwest has been my go-to Airline for the simplicity and honesty. I really enjoyed their no hidden fees, one price for the ticket approach to things. Adding seat assignments feels like the first step to giving up that flat pricing model and with it the honesty in pricing I appreciated.
- pdntspa 2y ago
  What does assigned seating have to do with their pricing model?
  - sickofparadox 2y ago
    The next logical step from assigned seating is a per-seat pricing model based off of algorithmically determined desirability.
johnnyapol 2y ago
The biggest reason I flew Southwest was just because with the $20-$25 for early bird check-in each way, I could pretty much guarantee I wouldn't be stuck with a middle seat and would be likely to have control of where on the plane I was (e.g. if I had a tight connection, could be closer to the front). If being able to pick an acceptable seat ends up costing more than this, I'll be firmly in the territory of just price shopping between the other US airlines and picking whoever has the best price for the route. Admittedly, as someone who flies alone the vast majority of the time, this system worked well for me without much overhead. I can understand how families might be relieved at being able to reserve seats all next to each other as the cost of early bird for say 4 people would really add up. I guess I'll just be enjoying my current setup while I can and then move forward without any sort of loyalty.
- itsdrewmiller 2y ago
  You can pay extra to reserve specific seats on basically every airline - it might cost a little more overall but it seems like that you're already just comparison shopping with heuristics.
gumby 2y ago
Will they bring back the backward-facing seats? I always chose them, believing them to be safer in an abrupt landing (same on the train).
xnx 2y ago
5 hours ago. 11 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41067431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41067431

14 points by vyrotek 2y ago

Making which seat you’ll get a mystery until check-in wasn’t much fun and made boarding slow. Glad to see it go. $50/seat for early boarding position, so it’s not like they weren’t already charging more for an aisle or window near the front.

space_fountain 2y ago
I've definitely heard claims that not having assigned seats speeds up boarding. There's some logic to both positions to me. Do you have any hard numbers?
- kolbe 2y ago
  With a little googling, at the very least it's clear to me that some form of back-to-front is most efficient, and Southwest inevitably doesn't do that because the first people on want to be closest to the front in order to get off quicker.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Southwest fills front to back and aisle and window before middle. It’s practically optimized to be bad.
    - kolbe 2y ago
      While this is true in theory, I don't know if it's been established in fact. There's some sort of rumor/myth/legend that Southwest's open seating is most efficient in practice, but I can't see any data to support this claim, and I'm dubious of it. The models don't cleanly capture things like breaking up families, adding confusion, etc. Southwest also has an interesting incentive structure where you're rewarded for being on time and getting into position with a better seat. While on other airlines, your incentive is the other way, where you'd prefer to stay off the plane as long as possible. I don't know the net practical effect.
      - xscott 2y ago
        Another feature is that they let "parents with small children" board earlier in the process, so if you get on after that you can avoid sitting near the screaming, crying, and kicking seats.
    - readthenotes1 2y ago
      Southwest has the fastest turnaround times amongst the major US airlines, so there must be something wrong with theory. https://www.oag.com/blog/innovative-airline-operations-the-turnaround https://www.oag.com/blog/innovative-airline-operations-the-t...
  - space_fountain 2y ago
    Yes, but no airlines use this boarding flow. Most do more or less the worst boarding flow. They board front to back. Here's an article claiming southwest wins in the real world (https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/16/business/airline-boarding-process-explained/index.html#:~:text=Southwest%20Airlines%20has%20the%20fastest%20boarding%20process%20of%20any%20major%20airline%20by%20simply%20allowing%20people%20to%20claim%20the%20first%20available%20seat.%20It%20works%20because%20passengers%20spend%20less%20time%20waiting%20in%20the%20aisle%2C%20and%20have%20more%20freedom%20to%20sit%20where%20it%E2%80%99s%20least%20crowded https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/16/business/airline-boarding-pro...)
mysterydip 2y ago
The times I flew on southwest, boarding was just uncomfortable. Everyone who was already there was looking at you like "please don't sit next to us, we want our middle seat to stay empty" even knowing it's a full flight.
- 123456atx 2y ago
  last time we were coming back from san diego my wife asked a lady near the front to move her bag so we could sit down. she was trying to take a whole row of seats to herself. When we asked her she looked at her partner across the aisle like we just farted in her face, she got up and they went to get a row in the back.
- vundercind 2y ago
  Oh yeah, if you’re on the later end of Group C it means you’re gonna be deciding which person to give the bad news to. It sucks.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

oldpersonintx 2y ago

tough break for all the people who optimized the cheat codes for boarding first the wheelchair hack was demoted to amateur hour, the pros moved on to a simple arm sling they could fold up and put in their pocket good riddance to a dumb policy

sickofparadox 2y ago

Extremely disappointed to hear this - Southwest has been my go-to Airline for the simplicity and honesty. I really enjoyed their no hidden fees, one price for the ticket approach to things. Adding seat assignments feels like the first step to giving up that flat pricing model and with it the honesty in pricing I appreciated.

pdntspa 2y ago
What does assigned seating have to do with their pricing model?
- sickofparadox 2y ago
  The next logical step from assigned seating is a per-seat pricing model based off of algorithmically determined desirability.

johnnyapol 2y ago

The biggest reason I flew Southwest was just because with the $20-$25 for early bird check-in each way, I could pretty much guarantee I wouldn't be stuck with a middle seat and would be likely to have control of where on the plane I was (e.g. if I had a tight connection, could be closer to the front). If being able to pick an acceptable seat ends up costing more than this, I'll be firmly in the territory of just price shopping between the other US airlines and picking whoever has the best price for the route. Admittedly, as someone who flies alone the vast majority of the time, this system worked well for me without much overhead. I can understand how families might be relieved at being able to reserve seats all next to each other as the cost of early bird for say 4 people would really add up. I guess I'll just be enjoying my current setup while I can and then move forward without any sort of loyalty.

itsdrewmiller 2y ago
You can pay extra to reserve specific seats on basically every airline - it might cost a little more overall but it seems like that you're already just comparison shopping with heuristics.

gumby 2y ago

Will they bring back the backward-facing seats? I always chose them, believing them to be safer in an abrupt landing (same on the train).

xnx 2y ago

5 hours ago. 11 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41067431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41067431