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> suburbs work by siphoning resources from larger cities, sort of like a parasite. in turn they produce and encourage among the worst trends in US homes. acres

> suburbs work by siphoning resources from larger cities, sort of like a parasite. in turn they produce and encourage among the worst trends in US homes. acres of irrigated lawns and uninsulated attics and windows arent a concern but a feature of their housing code malaise as the cities subsidize this largesse. There’s a reason that this narrative, the Strong Towns narrative, comes from an organization with “Towns” in the name. It was originally noticed in small rural American cities (county seats in the rural US and the like), and applies fairly well there, since the trend is to build suburbs in unincorporated land surrounding the main city to avoid city taxes. Suburbs surrounding large American cities tend to be incorporated cities of their own, so they raise their own taxes and don’t steal from the main city. One major advantage cities used to have in the US but no longer do is that it used to be necessary to be annexed to a city to get access to things like their water system. That was a major driver of cities growing pre-WWII. However, as the US got richer and governmental structures became more sophisticated, things like water districts not coterminous with a city became common. Now there was little reason to become annexed to the city in most cases, unless your city or county ran into budget troubles, in which case the central city probably doesn’t want to pay for you either. Lots of suburbs remain separate specifically to avoid being subject to the city school system as well.

kiliantics 2y ago
While this might be true on the technical level you mention, I don't know the details, I think the general pattern holds true even for larger cities. Think of NYC, where many suburbanite "bridge and tunnel folks" choose to live in Jersey, Long Island, etc. to avoid the higher city taxes but have no problem availing of all the city-funded infrastructure. They even caused the state governor to backtrack on congestion pricing so they could keep driving their vehicles in at the expense of NYC residents.
- telotortium 2y ago
  Ah, but NYC benefits from suburbanites and other outsiders visiting the city for work, deliveries, government services, culture and everything else. Sure, they have to build infrastructure (very much including trains) to service them, but the return is that NYC gets to accrue a larger metro area and the associated wealth. Also, it’s easy to forget that much of NYC’s infrastructure needs to live in suburban areas due to NYC’s density. All the warehouses needed to keep NYC fed and supplied can’t fit inside the city, to name one prominent example. Even to bring all the residential housing in the metro area into the city itself would make the city have to spend an ungodly amount on infrastructure to support them inside the city limits. The city actually benefits by having other jurisdictions be responsible for housing much of the metro area population.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    although there the financial argument does apply. Nassau County has eye-wateringly high property taxes and the highest median income of any county in NY state, and has been under state fiscal supervision since the year 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_Interim_Finance_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_Interim_Finance_Authori...
    - telotortium 2y ago
      Huh, shows what I know. Although the financial troubles don’t seem especially related to inefficient suburban infrastructure, but rather mismanagement that could occur anywhere.
- coredog64 2y ago
  If you work in NYC, you pay tax in NYC, regardless of where you live. New York has agreements with most states such that you get a tax credit in your home state for what you pay NYC, but the big Apple gets first crack at your paycheck. New Jersey has pretty much resigned itself to this situation and gets funding via property tax.
  - kmeisthax 2y ago
    NY state works the same way too. If you work remotely you're still required to pay NYS income tax on your wages, even though basically no payroll company knows to check for this scenario unless you bug them about it. The technical term for this is the "convenience of the employer" rule, and in the specific case of NYS you are liable for taxes on nonresident income unless your work specifically requires you to be out of state[0] or you work from an employer-run office in another state. Remote employees like me get to pay quarterly estimated tax and then claim refunds from my resident state, which is a pain in the ass. Aside from New York, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Delaware, and Nebraska have the same rule. If you work for a company headquartered in any of those states you probably should be paying nonresident income taxes there just in case. My personal opinion is that "convenience of the employer" should only apply to people who regularly travel to and from the state for work, but last time I looked this up, some guy in Connecticut sued NYS and lost over that exact issue. For the record, the tax credit isn't part of the agreement, it's a constitutional mandate. SCOTUS prohibits two states taxing the same income, they have to divide it up, so every state has a "taxes paid to another state" credit. Though, funnily enough, that credit is taxable, ASK ME HOW I KNOW. If you wanna see some real double-tax bullshit, wait until you hear about how Americans have to pay both American and Japanese income tax if they live and work in Tokyo... [0] i.e. it's not at the convenience of the employer
    - fragmede 2y ago
      FWIW, if you are actually living in Japan, your first $120k or so qualifies for Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) so you're not actually paying double, but talk to your tax person.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
- mike50 2y ago
  Taxes are higher in the suburbs of NYC due to the funding of segregated school districts. MTA (mass transit) is a state agency and most of the highways are paid for through the state.

kiliantics 2y ago

While this might be true on the technical level you mention, I don't know the details, I think the general pattern holds true even for larger cities. Think of NYC, where many suburbanite "bridge and tunnel folks" choose to live in Jersey, Long Island, etc. to avoid the higher city taxes but have no problem availing of all the city-funded infrastructure. They even caused the state governor to backtrack on congestion pricing so they could keep driving their vehicles in at the expense of NYC residents.

telotortium 2y ago
Ah, but NYC benefits from suburbanites and other outsiders visiting the city for work, deliveries, government services, culture and everything else. Sure, they have to build infrastructure (very much including trains) to service them, but the return is that NYC gets to accrue a larger metro area and the associated wealth. Also, it’s easy to forget that much of NYC’s infrastructure needs to live in suburban areas due to NYC’s density. All the warehouses needed to keep NYC fed and supplied can’t fit inside the city, to name one prominent example. Even to bring all the residential housing in the metro area into the city itself would make the city have to spend an ungodly amount on infrastructure to support them inside the city limits. The city actually benefits by having other jurisdictions be responsible for housing much of the metro area population.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  although there the financial argument does apply. Nassau County has eye-wateringly high property taxes and the highest median income of any county in NY state, and has been under state fiscal supervision since the year 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_Interim_Finance_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_Interim_Finance_Authori...
  - telotortium 2y ago
    Huh, shows what I know. Although the financial troubles don’t seem especially related to inefficient suburban infrastructure, but rather mismanagement that could occur anywhere.
coredog64 2y ago
If you work in NYC, you pay tax in NYC, regardless of where you live. New York has agreements with most states such that you get a tax credit in your home state for what you pay NYC, but the big Apple gets first crack at your paycheck. New Jersey has pretty much resigned itself to this situation and gets funding via property tax.
- kmeisthax 2y ago
  NY state works the same way too. If you work remotely you're still required to pay NYS income tax on your wages, even though basically no payroll company knows to check for this scenario unless you bug them about it. The technical term for this is the "convenience of the employer" rule, and in the specific case of NYS you are liable for taxes on nonresident income unless your work specifically requires you to be out of state[0] or you work from an employer-run office in another state. Remote employees like me get to pay quarterly estimated tax and then claim refunds from my resident state, which is a pain in the ass. Aside from New York, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Delaware, and Nebraska have the same rule. If you work for a company headquartered in any of those states you probably should be paying nonresident income taxes there just in case. My personal opinion is that "convenience of the employer" should only apply to people who regularly travel to and from the state for work, but last time I looked this up, some guy in Connecticut sued NYS and lost over that exact issue. For the record, the tax credit isn't part of the agreement, it's a constitutional mandate. SCOTUS prohibits two states taxing the same income, they have to divide it up, so every state has a "taxes paid to another state" credit. Though, funnily enough, that credit is taxable, ASK ME HOW I KNOW. If you wanna see some real double-tax bullshit, wait until you hear about how Americans have to pay both American and Japanese income tax if they live and work in Tokyo... [0] i.e. it's not at the convenience of the employer
  - fragmede 2y ago
    FWIW, if you are actually living in Japan, your first $120k or so qualifies for Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) so you're not actually paying double, but talk to your tax person.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
mike50 2y ago
Taxes are higher in the suburbs of NYC due to the funding of segregated school districts. MTA (mass transit) is a state agency and most of the highways are paid for through the state.