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I was recently in Lisbon and was surprised that an espresso still costs 70 cents despite the influx of tourists and expats. If it's the same in Greece, I can ea

by pavlov 2y ago

I was recently in Lisbon and was surprised that an espresso still costs 70 cents despite the influx of tourists and expats. If it's the same in Greece, I can easily see how an unemployed person can afford to hang out.

InitialLastName 2y ago
When I visited a rust belt city recently, it was amazing how many of the coffee shops and bars were still open of my preferred "sit and have a quiet conversation" variety. In my VHCOL city, where commercial rents are absurd, the only coffee shops/bars that can stay open are the ones that can drive tons of business (and thus push patrons through like cattle, with all cues pointing towards "you shouldn't be hanging out here").
xeromal 2y ago
My buddy lived in greece for a bit and he laughed at how he could order a one euro coffee delivered to his room or office almost anywhere. He couldn't comprehend how it works.
stavros 2y ago
It used to be 2.5 EUR or so, but now it's risen due to inflation. Keep in mind that in Greece, your family will also support you if you're unemployed, so it's not uncommon for parents to share their pension or children to share their salary with the family.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >Keep in mind that in Greece, your family will also support you if you're unemployed That's cool, if you have a family nearby or you're a in a good relationship with yours. Sucks for those who do not, which is why social safety nets are more important. You pay taxes but in case you fall down, the safety net should catch you make sure you don't end up on the streets if you don't have a family nearby.
  - stavros 2y ago
    Again, that's Us-centric thinking. If you're unemployed and don't have family nearby, you either move there to save on costs, or they send you money. There are very few people here who have a relationship with their families so bad that the family won't support them, because it's a social expectation. That's the definition of a social safety net, as it's a safety net that society institutes.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >Again, that's Us-centric thinking. Not it isn't, I'm European from a European centric thinking. What you're talking about applies if young people choose to continue living in the same village where they were born and their family still lives, but that hasn't been the case in a long time. Young people (in Europe) move to big metro areas for university or jobs, and often, especially in Greece, they move to other EU countries. Your family from some Greek village, won't be able to come take care of you in Amsterdam, and most likely they won't have the money to support your NL living expenses from their Greek pensions to help you out, nor will you moving from Amsterdam back to some Greek village help you out too much since there's no jobs in your niche there, or maybe even no jobs at all so now you're broke in Greece instead of broke in Amsterdam but with less job options. Your PoV scenario is just unrealistic in the world of today and only applies in the traditionalistic tribal village lifestyle that's more or less dead nowadays and few live it. Sure, some lucked out and were born in afluent big metro areas with universities and jobs meaning they always have their family close by, but that's more the exception rather than the rule. If you look at international cities like Munich or Berlin, most people living there weren't actually born there or have family there, they just moved there for study/work. How can family help them then?
      - stavros 2y ago
        I kind of feel like you can't lecture someone from a small Greek village on what life for people from small greek villages is like unless you've lived there. I know plenty of people who emigrated to the Netherlands, I don't know anyone who was poor and emigrated there (they don't speak enough foreign languages to have a hope) or that lived there for more than a few months while unable to get a job Who are these people who go be unemployed in a high CoL country? Anyway, that's my opinion, and trying to correct people from other cultures that tell me my opinions on my culture cannot be right is tiring, so I'll leave it here.
renewiltord 2y ago
Yeah, one of the most notable thing about the HCOL US areas is that service employees are paid very well. By comparison, in India, 15 minute delivery at 3 AM costs relatively nothing.

by pavlov 2y ago

InitialLastName 2y ago

When I visited a rust belt city recently, it was amazing how many of the coffee shops and bars were still open of my preferred "sit and have a quiet conversation" variety. In my VHCOL city, where commercial rents are absurd, the only coffee shops/bars that can stay open are the ones that can drive tons of business (and thus push patrons through like cattle, with all cues pointing towards "you shouldn't be hanging out here").

xeromal 2y ago

My buddy lived in greece for a bit and he laughed at how he could order a one euro coffee delivered to his room or office almost anywhere. He couldn't comprehend how it works.

stavros 2y ago

It used to be 2.5 EUR or so, but now it's risen due to inflation. Keep in mind that in Greece, your family will also support you if you're unemployed, so it's not uncommon for parents to share their pension or children to share their salary with the family.

Rinzler89 2y ago
>Keep in mind that in Greece, your family will also support you if you're unemployed That's cool, if you have a family nearby or you're a in a good relationship with yours. Sucks for those who do not, which is why social safety nets are more important. You pay taxes but in case you fall down, the safety net should catch you make sure you don't end up on the streets if you don't have a family nearby.
- stavros 2y ago
  Again, that's Us-centric thinking. If you're unemployed and don't have family nearby, you either move there to save on costs, or they send you money. There are very few people here who have a relationship with their families so bad that the family won't support them, because it's a social expectation. That's the definition of a social safety net, as it's a safety net that society institutes.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >Again, that's Us-centric thinking. Not it isn't, I'm European from a European centric thinking. What you're talking about applies if young people choose to continue living in the same village where they were born and their family still lives, but that hasn't been the case in a long time. Young people (in Europe) move to big metro areas for university or jobs, and often, especially in Greece, they move to other EU countries. Your family from some Greek village, won't be able to come take care of you in Amsterdam, and most likely they won't have the money to support your NL living expenses from their Greek pensions to help you out, nor will you moving from Amsterdam back to some Greek village help you out too much since there's no jobs in your niche there, or maybe even no jobs at all so now you're broke in Greece instead of broke in Amsterdam but with less job options. Your PoV scenario is just unrealistic in the world of today and only applies in the traditionalistic tribal village lifestyle that's more or less dead nowadays and few live it. Sure, some lucked out and were born in afluent big metro areas with universities and jobs meaning they always have their family close by, but that's more the exception rather than the rule. If you look at international cities like Munich or Berlin, most people living there weren't actually born there or have family there, they just moved there for study/work. How can family help them then?
    - stavros 2y ago
      I kind of feel like you can't lecture someone from a small Greek village on what life for people from small greek villages is like unless you've lived there. I know plenty of people who emigrated to the Netherlands, I don't know anyone who was poor and emigrated there (they don't speak enough foreign languages to have a hope) or that lived there for more than a few months while unable to get a job Who are these people who go be unemployed in a high CoL country? Anyway, that's my opinion, and trying to correct people from other cultures that tell me my opinions on my culture cannot be right is tiring, so I'll leave it here.

renewiltord 2y ago

Yeah, one of the most notable thing about the HCOL US areas is that service employees are paid very well. By comparison, in India, 15 minute delivery at 3 AM costs relatively nothing.