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Homo did not need to evolve to be strong when the prevailing theory is that we used our long distance running ability to chase and kill by exhausting large prey

Homo did not need to evolve to be strong when the prevailing theory is that we used our long distance running ability to chase and kill by exhausting large prey - strength is irrelevant to that kind of predator. It makes sense evolution did not select for this trait with homo, because there’s been no selective pressure for it and the species has been extremely successful without it.

jerf 2y ago
This isn't an attack on humans. It's only to be expected that given all the other stat maxing we've done we need a dump stat somewhere, to borrow gaming terminology. Our list of attributes that is either simply the best, or very competitive, is quite absurdly long.
- keybored 2y ago
  You say that humans are weak in terms of physical attributes[1] and then ignore the substance of the argument when someone replies and points out that humans are the best animal at long-distance running. Which is not a fitness attribute that anyone serious disregards… any human that is, to be fair. [1] But you have the “literal strenght” narrow fallback though.
  - jerf 2y ago
    "You said a thing, and I understood what the thing meant, but then I reinterpreted the thing to mean something else that made you wrong. Ha! I win!" No, you don't.
    - keybored 2y ago
      It’s such a glaring thing to miss. We have bad explosive strength (… contra slow-twitch endurance power, contra this whole thing that people actively exercise to get better at.) It’s impossible to not see the incongruity after the fact.
dghlsakjg 2y ago
Persistence hunting as a major driver of human evolution, or a common mode of hunting, is a theory that has caught the popular imagination, but has precious little actual evidence behind it, sadly. Most of the pop culture articles cite a list of facts, that are not true (Humans are uniquely efficient, humans are some of the only animals that sweat to cool themselves, only humans can travel long distances at a moderate pace). While persistence hunting is possible, modern experiments have shown that it has an incredibly low success rate, especially considering the level of effort necessary. https://afan.ottenheimer.com/articles/myth_of_persistent_hunting https://afan.ottenheimer.com/articles/myth_of_persistent_hun... https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hunting/ https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hu...
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  “debunked” is a rather strong word to use here since it’s a theory that’s inherently untestable - the reality being that humans likely used a variety of hunting methods, and since that’s one that could have been used, it’s likely it was used.
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
    I never said debunked(?) It is untestable, sure, but some of the main arguments in the proposed theory are based on untruths, and none of the evidence that we would expect to have found to support it being widespread has been found yet. We have found plenty of evidence pointing to humans using other hunting strategies, so it seems odd that there is no evidence pointing to persistence hunting and that the strategy that we evolved so many traits for would have died out in all but one or two remaining primitive cultures. Simply put, a group of humans gambling 10s of thousands of calories each in order to possibly capture a single large animal miles away from the rest of the tribe is an absolutely horrendous survival strategy.
    - svieira 2y ago
      Funnily enough, when you put people into primitive situations it is one of the techniques that they adopt when they can't make better things work: > Lacking guns and even bows, they could hunt only by digging traps or pursuing prey across the mountains until the animals collapsed from exhaustion. Dmitry built up astonishing endurance, and could hunt barefoot in winter, sometimes returning to the hut after several days, having slept in the open in 40 degrees of frost, a young elk across his shoulders. https://theweek.com/articles/468207/russian-family-that-lived-isolation-40-years https://theweek.com/articles/468207/russian-family-that-live... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family
abfan1127 2y ago
In the book, Sapiens, they talk about how, while important, homo sapiens ability to socially coordinate allowed the species to hunt, protect from/attack neighboring homo species (i.e. Neanderthals). Our brains gave us the ability to coordinate large groups (social groups, hunting groups) without the restriction of instinct giving our group members to pivot as necessary.

jerf 2y ago

This isn't an attack on humans. It's only to be expected that given all the other stat maxing we've done we need a dump stat somewhere, to borrow gaming terminology. Our list of attributes that is either simply the best, or very competitive, is quite absurdly long.

keybored 2y ago
You say that humans are weak in terms of physical attributes[1] and then ignore the substance of the argument when someone replies and points out that humans are the best animal at long-distance running. Which is not a fitness attribute that anyone serious disregards… any human that is, to be fair. [1] But you have the “literal strenght” narrow fallback though.
- jerf 2y ago
  "You said a thing, and I understood what the thing meant, but then I reinterpreted the thing to mean something else that made you wrong. Ha! I win!" No, you don't.
  - keybored 2y ago
    It’s such a glaring thing to miss. We have bad explosive strength (… contra slow-twitch endurance power, contra this whole thing that people actively exercise to get better at.) It’s impossible to not see the incongruity after the fact.

dghlsakjg 2y ago

Persistence hunting as a major driver of human evolution, or a common mode of hunting, is a theory that has caught the popular imagination, but has precious little actual evidence behind it, sadly. Most of the pop culture articles cite a list of facts, that are not true (Humans are uniquely efficient, humans are some of the only animals that sweat to cool themselves, only humans can travel long distances at a moderate pace). While persistence hunting is possible, modern experiments have shown that it has an incredibly low success rate, especially considering the level of effort necessary. https://afan.ottenheimer.com/articles/myth_of_persistent_hunting https://afan.ottenheimer.com/articles/myth_of_persistent_hun... https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hunting/ https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hu...

JohnMakin 2y ago
“debunked” is a rather strong word to use here since it’s a theory that’s inherently untestable - the reality being that humans likely used a variety of hunting methods, and since that’s one that could have been used, it’s likely it was used.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  I never said debunked(?) It is untestable, sure, but some of the main arguments in the proposed theory are based on untruths, and none of the evidence that we would expect to have found to support it being widespread has been found yet. We have found plenty of evidence pointing to humans using other hunting strategies, so it seems odd that there is no evidence pointing to persistence hunting and that the strategy that we evolved so many traits for would have died out in all but one or two remaining primitive cultures. Simply put, a group of humans gambling 10s of thousands of calories each in order to possibly capture a single large animal miles away from the rest of the tribe is an absolutely horrendous survival strategy.
  - svieira 2y ago
    Funnily enough, when you put people into primitive situations it is one of the techniques that they adopt when they can't make better things work: > Lacking guns and even bows, they could hunt only by digging traps or pursuing prey across the mountains until the animals collapsed from exhaustion. Dmitry built up astonishing endurance, and could hunt barefoot in winter, sometimes returning to the hut after several days, having slept in the open in 40 degrees of frost, a young elk across his shoulders. https://theweek.com/articles/468207/russian-family-that-lived-isolation-40-years https://theweek.com/articles/468207/russian-family-that-live... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family

abfan1127 2y ago

In the book, Sapiens, they talk about how, while important, homo sapiens ability to socially coordinate allowed the species to hunt, protect from/attack neighboring homo species (i.e. Neanderthals). Our brains gave us the ability to coordinate large groups (social groups, hunting groups) without the restriction of instinct giving our group members to pivot as necessary.