3 ms·

> Any sane UBI replaces most, if not all, other benefit programs. Elsethread I wrote: >> Secondly, you have to be prepared to let people starve to death in th

> Any sane UBI replaces most, if not all, other benefit programs. Elsethread I wrote: >> Secondly, you have to be prepared to let people starve to death in the streets. If that non-insignificant chunk of people who have gambling/alcohol/sex/drug addictions blow their entire income on the first day of the month on slots/booze/prostitutes/drugs, any funds you set aside for them means that what you have is UBI + existing welfare, not UBI instead of existing welfare. Are you willing to let people starve to death?

phatskat 2y ago
> Are you willing to let people starve to death? How is this any different from how things work now? “UBI”, to me, and in a society where work is largely a non-human task, needs to encompass housing, food, etc. In a world where jobs don’t exist in the way they do now, UBI needs to be a stop gap while we completely overhaul what it means to have an _economy_.
- lelanthran 2y ago
  >> > Are you willing to let people starve to death? > How is this any different from how things work now? Now there are specific (and often means-tested) welfare benefits available to people. Replacing all of those benefits with a single (non-means-tested) cash payment because: >>> Any sane UBI replaces most, if not all, other benefit programs. means you have to be ready to let other people die for your principles.
  - phatskat 2y ago
    I get what you mean, and I don’t think the two can’t coexist. Some benefits like SNAP would probably go away - what’s the difference in $500 for food vs the lump of UBI? If you’re getting $4k/month, then the need for those specific benefits goes away. If you’re disabled, UBI doesn’t need to replace your disability benefits, but could supplement it. Imagine having that $2k/month for disability on top of the $4k for UBI: people could actually focus that $2k on treatment instead of just using it to barely get by.
singpolyma3 2y ago
Existing welfare programs that give out money are in the same boat anyway so it's no change there. I am not suggesting the elimination of food banks I suppose, which one might consider a benefit program, though usually not government operated.

phatskat 2y ago

> Are you willing to let people starve to death? How is this any different from how things work now? “UBI”, to me, and in a society where work is largely a non-human task, needs to encompass housing, food, etc. In a world where jobs don’t exist in the way they do now, UBI needs to be a stop gap while we completely overhaul what it means to have an _economy_.

lelanthran 2y ago
>> > Are you willing to let people starve to death? > How is this any different from how things work now? Now there are specific (and often means-tested) welfare benefits available to people. Replacing all of those benefits with a single (non-means-tested) cash payment because: >>> Any sane UBI replaces most, if not all, other benefit programs. means you have to be ready to let other people die for your principles.
- phatskat 2y ago
  I get what you mean, and I don’t think the two can’t coexist. Some benefits like SNAP would probably go away - what’s the difference in $500 for food vs the lump of UBI? If you’re getting $4k/month, then the need for those specific benefits goes away. If you’re disabled, UBI doesn’t need to replace your disability benefits, but could supplement it. Imagine having that $2k/month for disability on top of the $4k for UBI: people could actually focus that $2k on treatment instead of just using it to barely get by.

singpolyma3 2y ago

Existing welfare programs that give out money are in the same boat anyway so it's no change there. I am not suggesting the elimination of food banks I suppose, which one might consider a benefit program, though usually not government operated.