4 ms·

Are there any companies that are hybrids of this, where they have some fixed structure in terms of voting power that's, say, 60% employee-owned, and 40% which i

Are there any companies that are hybrids of this, where they have some fixed structure in terms of voting power that's, say, 60% employee-owned, and 40% which is publicly traded and has a board? So the employee-owned side of things maintains the primacy of their skin in the game because the 60% control that they have is not something which can be amended, but they can also receive outside investment to some degree? As someone who's definitely not an expert on these things, the idea seems intriguing to me, but I have no idea if there are some reasons why this obviously cannot logically or practically work (as opposed to simply being something which people don't presently do--or something which I just haven't heard of people doing).

raybb 2y ago
I'd guess Wawa or Publix might be. They're both ESOP but from the people I know who work there it doesn't end up being much cash difference. There is a whole book about Wawa that talks about the ESOP decision and such. It's called the Wawa Way. https://openlibrary.org/works/OL19986572W/The_Wawa_way?edition=key%3A/books/OL36727578M https://openlibrary.org/works/OL19986572W/The_Wawa_way?editi...
eru 2y ago
German companies come pretty close. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany Also see how many cooperatives are run. You can definitely make these kinds of things work and eg worker cooperatives are generally legal to set up around the world, but they don't necessarily work any better than vanilla companies (and that includes not necessarily being better for the employees).
- nutrie 2y ago
  > German companies come pretty close. Worked for one with this setup. It was all great until the stock price fell to ~20 % of its original value and has stayed that way since. Employees didn't like it, which was kinda funny (it's a risk they signed up for).
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    Jeez, that must have been some giant scandal to lose 80% of market cap. What is accounting fraud?
    - eru 2y ago
      Lots of leverage can do that, too.

raybb 2y ago

I'd guess Wawa or Publix might be. They're both ESOP but from the people I know who work there it doesn't end up being much cash difference. There is a whole book about Wawa that talks about the ESOP decision and such. It's called the Wawa Way. https://openlibrary.org/works/OL19986572W/The_Wawa_way?edition=key%3A/books/OL36727578M https://openlibrary.org/works/OL19986572W/The_Wawa_way?editi...

eru 2y ago

German companies come pretty close. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany Also see how many cooperatives are run. You can definitely make these kinds of things work and eg worker cooperatives are generally legal to set up around the world, but they don't necessarily work any better than vanilla companies (and that includes not necessarily being better for the employees).

nutrie 2y ago
> German companies come pretty close. Worked for one with this setup. It was all great until the stock price fell to ~20 % of its original value and has stayed that way since. Employees didn't like it, which was kinda funny (it's a risk they signed up for).
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Jeez, that must have been some giant scandal to lose 80% of market cap. What is accounting fraud?
  - eru 2y ago
    Lots of leverage can do that, too.