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I notice issues relating to these groups (israeli cyber groups) are very quick to be denied or delegitimised on HN
by OhioMan2943 2y ago
I notice issues relating to these groups (israeli cyber groups) are very quick to be denied or delegitimised on HN
- Larrikin 2y agoAnything attributed to Russia or China also is, but usually the grammatical mistakes give the game away.
- kstenerud 2y agoIt's the new world we live in. Every power group has their army of adherents they can tap to kill a story they don't like. Even those we generally consider "goodies" do this now.
- cen4 2y agoAre there sites like HN out of EU covering EU related news?
- 6510 2y agoEnglish is required for IT.
- Rinzler89 2y agoThere's nothing exactly like HN out there. But EU tech. news sites exist (most have a linux focus though and you'll need to use machine translation): https://www.theregister.com/ https://www.theregister.com/ https://linuxnews.de/ https://linuxnews.de/ https://www.root.cz/ https://www.root.cz/ https://www.golem.de/ https://www.golem.de/ https://www.heise.de/ct https://www.heise.de/ct https://www.computerbase.de/ https://www.computerbase.de/ https://gnulinux.ch/ https://gnulinux.ch/ https://www.linux-magazin.de/ https://www.linux-magazin.de/
- cen4 2y agoThanks!
- lukan 2y agoNot my impression, can you share an example?
- jahfdG 2y agoThis applies to any Western government interest group, at least for small submissions or individual comments that relate to those organizations. Large ones like the Assange release cannot be suppressed, but are full of pro-government comments that would not have been made by any software engineer before 2015. So either the engineers have changed fundamentally, or ...
- Brechreiz 2y agoOr what? Your comment was truncated for me.
- spurgu 2y ago...or it's non-software-engineers writing those pro-government comments. (just the logical conclusion of the statement, intentionally made blank)
- passwordoops 2y agoWhy couldn't the software engineers change? The geopolitical scene is much different today, and it's easy to see threats coming from your opposite pole
- sharpshadow 2y agoCan you elaborate what in your opinion changed in the geopolitical scene?
- pjc50 2y agoRussian invasion of Ukraine?
- sharpshadow 2y agoI can see that there is way less interest in Russia China stuff with additional positions against these countries. There where usually is rationally irrationality takes place and most people avoid to say anything.
- ekkodur 2y ago[flagged]
- OhioMan2943 2y agoThe level of systemic insitutional corruption that permits this is scary, I've never been so uneasy to present personal stances on issues that I knew to be the moral ones, such as the equality of all human lives, in my country (Australia) before this in my life.
- nanna 2y agoExcuse me? Who is the "them" you are referring to?
- pcdoodle 2y agoYou know, the government we send all our tax dollars to.
- weatherlite 2y agoUkraine?
- com 2y agoIf I could, I would. Probably the best long term investment of my tax dollars today.
- ADeerAppeared 2y agoA piece of advice: Avoid using general and indirect terms like "Them" when referring to the state of Israel and/or it's government. Antisemites deliberately use such language to conflate the Israeli government with the global Jewish population, in order to blame & slander the latter for the actions of the former. If you use similar language, you'll sound like an antisemite.
- 2y ago
- Ozzie_osman 2y agoThis piece might be relevant: https://www.leefang.com/p/inside-the-pro-israel-information https://www.leefang.com/p/inside-the-pro-israel-information
- whearyou 2y agoIt’s a minor effort compared to the hundreds of millions Iran, China, and Russia have spent for a decade on influence operations. Those get little air time in hard progressive or far right spaces since these anti liberal influence operations mostly promote hard progressive and far right perspectives.
- Brechreiz 2y agoanti liberal influence operations do not promote hard progressive perspectives.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- brabel 2y agoWild guess: they could because the best way to make people more conservative is to make liberals look more and more extreme. These things go in cycles, when the pendulum shifts too far to the left or to the right, it tends to swiftly move back the other way, and so the cycle continues. Example: the far right tries to depict the left as degenerates who want to make all children gay just because they support introducing LGBT+ friendly material to the school education. I'm sure some people buy that and hence become more inclined to reject the left, as who wants to "force" children to become homosexual, or transgender, right?! Now, whether China/Russia are doing it or not, I have no idea, and I suspect no one here does. But even if they do, I have trouble seeing how they would be more capable than Europe and the US, who clearly also try pretty hard to promote their own values elsewhere, so they can hardly complain about others doing it.
- OhioMan2943 2y ago
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- RUnconcerned 2y ago[flagged]
- admissionsguy 2y agoIt’s the octopus, clearly (and they make bread out of babies, as my grandmother used to say)
- dang 2y agoCould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and we have to ban accounts that keep doing it. In this case you triggered another commenter into a complete misunderstanding (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41066935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41066935), taking your comment to be not only serious but also representative of the community. Given the high level of inflammation around this topic (everywhere, including on HN), that is seriously not cool. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules in the future, we'd appreciate it. It looks like you've been breaking them for quite a long time, not just with drive-by flamebait like the above and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41066717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41066717, but also with ideological battle comments generally. If you want to keep posting here, we need you (as with any other user) to drop that.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- flanked-evergl 2y ago[flagged]
- OhioMan2943 2y agoYou're right this is HN not 4chan, because none of the things you said have actually happened here and people can easily have good respectful debate. It feels like you're attempting to use this as a way to silence debate around the country of origin rather than anything else
- flanked-evergl 2y agoIt did happen: https://archive.ph/KT4q8 https://archive.ph/KT4q8 and to be quite frank, that is just the most egregious example and this thread is anything but respectful debate with statements like "I've taken to using it because i feel uncomfortable even naming them a lot of the time" and implying that HN is somehow afflicted by institutional corruption.
- dang 2y agoI think you misread that post. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41071644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41071644. Btw, you don't need screenshots of HN comments. Anyone with 'showdead' turned on in their profile can read the original: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41066729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41066729. All: if you turn 'showdead' on, please don't forget that you did so, because we sometimes get emails from people asking "how can you possibly condone $horrible-comment appearing on HN?" when in reality the account has been banned for years.
- snapcaster 2y agoSo if I find a lunatic IDF member saying kill all Palestinians you would agree to stop debating this issue out of safety risks against arabs?
- flanked-evergl 2y ago
- saagarjha 2y agoNo they're not. You're the top comment on this post, despite contributing very little to this discussion. Israel and the geopolitics around mercenary spyware coming out of that country is a very regular occurrence on this site. Despite a few instances of people trying to downplay the connection or redirect the conversation, there is ample discussion of this topic. I know this because I follow this topic closely and read discussion of almost every single one. I have yet to see any evidence of any widespread or coordinated effort to brush away these issues.
- serf 2y agomight I suggest that 'allowed discussion' isn't at all a metric by which to judge whether or not there are efforts to delegitimize a topic. might I also suggest that sufficiently skilled efforts to direct a conversation will not be detected by most conversation participants.
- saagarjha 2y agoIn that case I would suggest that 't0lo provide us with receipts considering that most of us are not skilled enough to detect these efforts
- boffinAudio 2y agoTo adequately address this claim, we (the general HN public) would need to be able to access all of the metrics regarding censored/downvoted-into-oblivion articles on HN related to Israel/Mossad/Gaza/War Crimes/etc., and we all know that there is only one individual with such power, and its not exactly in their job description to reveal to this audience just how far and wide the obfuscation/censorship goes ..
- saagarjha 2y agoAgain: I keep track of mercenary spyware pretty closely. Almost all major stories in this area end up on the front page within hours or days of them breaking, especially if they have significant new information in them. I am not an expert on any topic that touches Israel but this is the one I watch and I see no reason to believe there is suppression of this topic. If someone is acting to try to keep this away from the site, then they are evidently fairly ineffective at it.
- elorant 2y ago[flagged]
- OhioMan2943 2y agoExcept you know that isn't the case on HN because we still have a good standard of conversation and respect
- flanked-evergl 2y agoThere is litterally a response to you that claims that Jews make bread out of babies: https://archive.ph/KT4q8 https://archive.ph/KT4q8
- dang 2y agoThat comment was sarcastically saying the opposite of what you took it to mean—at least I believe so, based on the account's history. Of course, it was still a bad HN comment and rightly flagged by users—but if it's evidence of anything, it's evidence that other HN commenters agree with you. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41071782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41071782 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41071644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41071644 also. I've replied in each place you posted this because people often jump to wrong conclusions about the community and it's important not to do that.
- Eumenes 2y agoIsrael, despite being a small country, has a very successful tech/IT sector, esp in the security space. Probably IDF acolytes bridging over to the private sector. Israel is widely known to participate in social psyop campaigns as well. It is not farfetched to think they have a pulse on popular tech forums like HN.
- OhioMan2943 2y agoExactly, it's far more likely than not. It's just a question of how much. I wish this influence was catalogued and publicised like russia.
- underdeserver 2y agoWhere is Russian influence catalogued and publicised?
- com 2y agoWell, this site is a bit more general than only Russian disinformation but has a fairly interesting database too: https://euvsdisinfo.eu/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/ (It’s from the EU’s diplomatic service so it should be considered geopolitically self-interested)
- dang 2y agoThey get discussed a fair bit, as other commenters have pointed out. But these stories tend to blend into each other after a while. It's hard to pick out which ones are new/interesting and eventually readers respond with fatigue to the entire category. This phenomenon is generic and happens with all repeated/related stories. People only interpret it differently in this case because they're conditioned to treat this topic as a special case. They therefore assume there must be some special thing going on. Both sides of the conflict do this, btw.
- JoeyBananas 2y agoThe actions of Israel cyber defense / hacker groups is pretty much a footnote in the history of Israel. They allowed 9/11 to happen (they knew because they spied on Americans through a company called Amdocs) They stole nuclear weapons from USA through a company called NUMEC They killed JFK when he tried to investigate them for stealing nuclear material, To this day, Israel maintains an arsenal of nuclear weapons, which they use to threaten other countries, while simultaneously preventing other nations from procuring nuclear weapons They perpetuated a genocide, with the secret objective of setting conditions for a religious ritual involving a red heifer sacrifice leading to the destruction of the Al Aqsa mosque ( seriously) They sold US electronic warfare technology to China, They deliberarely sunk the USS liberty killing US sailors, and then had their corrupt US politicians try to cover it up,