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> Startups are the new graduate school Sure, assuming that the only worthwhile human endeavours over the next fifty years are gonna be "iPhone games" and "web

> Startups are the new graduate school Sure, assuming that the only worthwhile human endeavours over the next fifty years are gonna be "iPhone games" and "web apps that let you share photos of your cats". It's amazing what you can do, nowadays, with a laptop, a cafe, a collaborator and a stack of "For Dummies" books, but there's still far more things that you can't.

mindcrime 14y ago
There seems to be an implicit assumption in what you just said, that I strongly disagree with. You seem to be saying that startups are only capable of tackling "iPhone games" and "web apps that let you share photos of your cats". I see no reason whatsoever to believe that that is true. Startups, especially the ones that manage to get VC funding, are not limited to the world of "a laptop, a cafe, a collaborator and a stack of "For Dummies" books." Somebody in an earlier thread mentioned how "universities are the best source of scientific papers," etc. as part of his argument against Thiel's approach. But, while it's just one anecdote, I'm working on a startup (not funded by Thiel, or anyone but the founders) and we have subscriptions to a pile of relevant IEEE, ACM and AAAI journals that relate to the work we're doing, and that's not even considering how much research is available on the 'Net. Personally I see no reason that startups can't (and shouldn't) be pushing the envelope technologically, with the caveat that certain fields would require huge capital investments for equipment and personnel, that might be beyond the reach of even deep pocketed investors. But not all fields fit that description.
- planetguy 14y ago
  I am, of course, exaggerating when I talk about all startups being web apps and iPhone games. On the other hand, an awful lot of the startups you'll find floating around the HN ecosystem do seem to fall into one category or the other. Many startups do, indeed, work on bigger problems. Batteries, solar power, freaking space travel. But who starts these? Not people who picked startups over university, that's for sure. To work on big real-world problems, you generally need a pretty darn strong background in science and/or engineering before you can even get started.
  - mindcrime 14y ago
    Ok, I can (and do) agree that many startups fall into your category of "a cafe, a laptop and a stack of "For Dummies" boooks." But isn't that sort of thing the very thing Thiel was railing against recently? He was the one talking about "Why don't we have flying cars yet," no? So it appears that he, at least, thinks that some of the kids are going to lead something that results in some breakthroughs. Note too, that these Thiel backed startups receive mentoring and advice and assistance from Peter and his network of connections. I'm sure some of them are able to put together teams of really talented people to complement the founder(s).
  - randomdata 14y ago
    I'm not sure I agree with you assertion. John Carmack is a notable college dropout who has been working on space travel. Capital is the only thing holding anyone back from working on those things. The reason you may see more scientists and engineers having access to the necessary capital is because they generally have that extra special drive to focus on that subject matter which excites investors to bring forth the money to make it happen. Someone with the same drive, but without a degree, will probably go just as far – they are a very rare breed though. Any random person who wants to just start a business, any business, can go to the coffee shop and start working away. They don't need capital from anyone. That is why people working on big problems are few and far between. You have to really want to work on space travel, or whatever, to put forth the extra effort to find the already rare investors.

mindcrime 14y ago

There seems to be an implicit assumption in what you just said, that I strongly disagree with. You seem to be saying that startups are only capable of tackling "iPhone games" and "web apps that let you share photos of your cats". I see no reason whatsoever to believe that that is true. Startups, especially the ones that manage to get VC funding, are not limited to the world of "a laptop, a cafe, a collaborator and a stack of "For Dummies" books." Somebody in an earlier thread mentioned how "universities are the best source of scientific papers," etc. as part of his argument against Thiel's approach. But, while it's just one anecdote, I'm working on a startup (not funded by Thiel, or anyone but the founders) and we have subscriptions to a pile of relevant IEEE, ACM and AAAI journals that relate to the work we're doing, and that's not even considering how much research is available on the 'Net. Personally I see no reason that startups can't (and shouldn't) be pushing the envelope technologically, with the caveat that certain fields would require huge capital investments for equipment and personnel, that might be beyond the reach of even deep pocketed investors. But not all fields fit that description.

planetguy 14y ago
I am, of course, exaggerating when I talk about all startups being web apps and iPhone games. On the other hand, an awful lot of the startups you'll find floating around the HN ecosystem do seem to fall into one category or the other. Many startups do, indeed, work on bigger problems. Batteries, solar power, freaking space travel. But who starts these? Not people who picked startups over university, that's for sure. To work on big real-world problems, you generally need a pretty darn strong background in science and/or engineering before you can even get started.
- mindcrime 14y ago
  Ok, I can (and do) agree that many startups fall into your category of "a cafe, a laptop and a stack of "For Dummies" boooks." But isn't that sort of thing the very thing Thiel was railing against recently? He was the one talking about "Why don't we have flying cars yet," no? So it appears that he, at least, thinks that some of the kids are going to lead something that results in some breakthroughs. Note too, that these Thiel backed startups receive mentoring and advice and assistance from Peter and his network of connections. I'm sure some of them are able to put together teams of really talented people to complement the founder(s).
- randomdata 14y ago
  I'm not sure I agree with you assertion. John Carmack is a notable college dropout who has been working on space travel. Capital is the only thing holding anyone back from working on those things. The reason you may see more scientists and engineers having access to the necessary capital is because they generally have that extra special drive to focus on that subject matter which excites investors to bring forth the money to make it happen. Someone with the same drive, but without a degree, will probably go just as far – they are a very rare breed though. Any random person who wants to just start a business, any business, can go to the coffee shop and start working away. They don't need capital from anyone. That is why people working on big problems are few and far between. You have to really want to work on space travel, or whatever, to put forth the extra effort to find the already rare investors.