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> Fact is, our social welfare state is unmatched compared to any other country. Nowhere else will you get welfare benefits this high. Our welfare benefits are s

> Fact is, our social welfare state is unmatched compared to any other country. Nowhere else will you get welfare benefits this high. Our welfare benefits are so high, the sudden drop in benefits reduces benefits from earning more money by insane margins. It's very funny, because people with the same political opinions as you in my country are absolutely positive that this is the case for my country instead (France). And in practice they are pretty similar (as are many European systems unsurprisingly, we all draw inspiration on each other) and as someone who knows the French social system fairly well I can assure you that the trope you hear from right wing politicians on TV is nothing but lies.

selfmodruntime 2y ago
Both can be right in their own way. I'm not saying we should get rid of our welfare. I'm just saying our people are missing the point. It's incredible privilege to live here. You think they would get the same welfare in the US, in China, Ghana or Russia? Think again. They should be grateful is what I'm saying.
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  No that's not what you're saying, you're saying that they live easily and have no incentive to work, which I'm arguing against. You also said this lack of incentive to work is causing inflation, which I'm also arguing against. Now I agree with you that even though their live is still tough, they are still very lucky to live in Germany as opposed to many other places on earth. But that wasn't the topic and you moved the goalpost.
  - selfmodruntime 2y ago
    > No that's not what you're saying, you're saying that they live easily and have no incentive to work Well you‘re free to quote me on that. I haven‘t been saying this at all. > which I'm arguing against. No, you’re arguing for falsehoods. Posters here are stating that things that are covered aren‘t and that people on Bürgergeld live in abhorrent poverty, which is demonstrably untrue. > You also said this lack of incentive to work is causing inflation, which I'm also arguing against. I haven‘t. Again, please do quote me. > But that wasn't the topic and you moved the goalpost. No, the topic was that you (among others) think people on Bürgergeld starve, are in dire need of heating and live in depressed states for lack of funding. These are lies. You‘re lying. I’ve no idea why.
    - onli 2y ago
      Given the full thread, you claimed both things here: >> It is free money for everyone. Everyone obviously excluding the people who work full-time and who are paying taxes so that "everyone" can live of Bürgergeld. > Oh wow, the exact thing people have been saying would happen has happened. Turn's out Quasi-UBI is a drain on tax paying citizens after all. Amazing.
      - selfmodruntime 2y ago
        The first one is not my statement, but a direct quote from the top poster. The second comment makes no statement about it being free and easy. Just that UBI money is being largely spent on leisure activities. It also is a drain on taxes. Nowhere there do I talk about easiness or inflation - at all. On the contrary, you‘ve been alerted of your easily disproven statements multiple times in this thread and not just by me. Let‘s keep being civil about this though.
    - onli 2y ago
      And here an example of someone starving because Hartz IV being cut: https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article818850/Hartz-IV-Empfaenger-stirbt-an-Unterernaehrung.html https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article818850/Hartz-IV-Empfa... Yes, that's not a common case, but it happens. Here an article about 5.5 million Germans not being able to pay for heating: https://www.deutschlandfunknova.de/beitrag/armut-5-5-millionen-menschen-haben-zu-wenig-geld-zum-heizen https://www.deutschlandfunknova.de/beitrag/armut-5-5-million...
      - selfmodruntime 2y ago
        You‘re really going to make your point with an Article from 2007 of a mentally ill man that didn‘t even answer his letters from the Arbeitsamt? He didn‘t even apply for aid. Also, you never have to go hungry in Germany. Anyone can go to a Suppenküche and get meals for free. Your other article is from 2022, the middle of the Ukraine war which caused an incredible explosion in heating costs. There is no mention of welfare there. Even then, if you actually read the stats behind it, Germany was still in the top 3 EU wide by a far margin. Also, as per the Statistisches Bundesamt, the people polled gave self assessed answers in these polls. There is no information to be found on the severity or degree of how many funds they were lacking, or even what „enough heating“ is supposed to mean. Bit disappointing to be honest. These articles do not support your point at all. What even is your point? Are you even German? You‘re discussing from a point of severe misinformation. I really don‘t get your agenda here.

selfmodruntime 2y ago

Both can be right in their own way. I'm not saying we should get rid of our welfare. I'm just saying our people are missing the point. It's incredible privilege to live here. You think they would get the same welfare in the US, in China, Ghana or Russia? Think again. They should be grateful is what I'm saying.

littlestymaar 2y ago
No that's not what you're saying, you're saying that they live easily and have no incentive to work, which I'm arguing against. You also said this lack of incentive to work is causing inflation, which I'm also arguing against. Now I agree with you that even though their live is still tough, they are still very lucky to live in Germany as opposed to many other places on earth. But that wasn't the topic and you moved the goalpost.
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  > No that's not what you're saying, you're saying that they live easily and have no incentive to work Well you‘re free to quote me on that. I haven‘t been saying this at all. > which I'm arguing against. No, you’re arguing for falsehoods. Posters here are stating that things that are covered aren‘t and that people on Bürgergeld live in abhorrent poverty, which is demonstrably untrue. > You also said this lack of incentive to work is causing inflation, which I'm also arguing against. I haven‘t. Again, please do quote me. > But that wasn't the topic and you moved the goalpost. No, the topic was that you (among others) think people on Bürgergeld starve, are in dire need of heating and live in depressed states for lack of funding. These are lies. You‘re lying. I’ve no idea why.
  - onli 2y ago
    Given the full thread, you claimed both things here: >> It is free money for everyone. Everyone obviously excluding the people who work full-time and who are paying taxes so that "everyone" can live of Bürgergeld. > Oh wow, the exact thing people have been saying would happen has happened. Turn's out Quasi-UBI is a drain on tax paying citizens after all. Amazing.
    - selfmodruntime 2y ago
      The first one is not my statement, but a direct quote from the top poster. The second comment makes no statement about it being free and easy. Just that UBI money is being largely spent on leisure activities. It also is a drain on taxes. Nowhere there do I talk about easiness or inflation - at all. On the contrary, you‘ve been alerted of your easily disproven statements multiple times in this thread and not just by me. Let‘s keep being civil about this though.
  - onli 2y ago
    And here an example of someone starving because Hartz IV being cut: https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article818850/Hartz-IV-Empfaenger-stirbt-an-Unterernaehrung.html https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article818850/Hartz-IV-Empfa... Yes, that's not a common case, but it happens. Here an article about 5.5 million Germans not being able to pay for heating: https://www.deutschlandfunknova.de/beitrag/armut-5-5-millionen-menschen-haben-zu-wenig-geld-zum-heizen https://www.deutschlandfunknova.de/beitrag/armut-5-5-million...
    - selfmodruntime 2y ago
      You‘re really going to make your point with an Article from 2007 of a mentally ill man that didn‘t even answer his letters from the Arbeitsamt? He didn‘t even apply for aid. Also, you never have to go hungry in Germany. Anyone can go to a Suppenküche and get meals for free. Your other article is from 2022, the middle of the Ukraine war which caused an incredible explosion in heating costs. There is no mention of welfare there. Even then, if you actually read the stats behind it, Germany was still in the top 3 EU wide by a far margin. Also, as per the Statistisches Bundesamt, the people polled gave self assessed answers in these polls. There is no information to be found on the severity or degree of how many funds they were lacking, or even what „enough heating“ is supposed to mean. Bit disappointing to be honest. These articles do not support your point at all. What even is your point? Are you even German? You‘re discussing from a point of severe misinformation. I really don‘t get your agenda here.