4 ms·

This is fun. The person you’ve replied to has stated a concrete (what they perceive to be) benefit of consumer protection regulation. One that doesn’t seem to

This is fun. The person you’ve replied to has stated a concrete (what they perceive to be) benefit of consumer protection regulation. One that doesn’t seem to limit choice at all, but rather improves visibility. I’m also inserting my own personal experience here. The country I live in, which isn’t in Europe, has similar regulation in place. In response you’re throwing around some vague notion of “freedom” and vague implication of a “better experience” without really explaining how mandatory unit pricing is a bad thing for you as a consumer. Has John Gruber got you all upset about the EU? I’m currently booking a trip to the US and the consumer experience is absolutely terrible. Tax-exclusive “totals”? Resort fees? Give me a break. It sounds like the US consumer experience is more aligned to your obvious libertarian ideology, and that’s the end of it.

tgma 2y ago
Can you think of any downside of that proposal at all? Tax inclusive total means government can screw the business and the end user and hide behind the tax inclusive price tag. Jack up the tax it seems the business is doing it.
- jcranmer 2y ago
  Funny, given that the product most US consumers are familiar with tax-inclusive pricing (gasoline) is the one product that hasn't had its tax rate changed in decades.
  - DragonStrength 2y ago
    Where? They’re constantly futzing with the taxes on it in my state.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Nothing says you can’t put ($40 of this is government taxes) in the receipt.
- mkl 2y ago
  Tax-exclusive prices hide the true cost and encourage overspending by making things falsely appear cheaper. Their purpose is for businesses to squeeze more from their customers. In NZ the price you see is the price you pay. The sales tax amount is always clearly stated on receipts, invoices, checkouts, online carts, etc. (by law) and the rate has changed twice in history, so everyone knows when it happens and who is responsible. Everything is explicit and nothing is or can be hidden (we don't do tipping either). In comparison when I visited the USA I never knew how much I would be paying for things, which felt fundamentally unfair and customer-opposed.
- girvo 2y ago
  ...the receipts show what tax is charged in the total. This is a total non-issue. Tax-exclusive pricing is ridiculous.
- cozzyd 2y ago
  Tax rates are easily discoverable (more so than currently hidden things like tariffs).
- Arn_Thor 2y ago
  The government can not "screw the business and the end user" because tax rates are public. VAT changes don't just happen in secret. Tax changes to specific product categories (such as extra taxes for alcohol in some countries) are publically debated. And if you want lower taxes you try to vote in a more economically right-wing government. The framing of your statement makes it clear you just don't trust/like governments. That's fine, I guess, but it's an incredibly strong bias in your arguments
WalterBright 2y ago
The tax exclusive prices lets you know how much the government is soaking you, rather than hiding it and blaming it on the business.
- chowells 2y ago
  That's irrelevant. Give me the total price, so I know how much something will cost. I don't care what percentage of it goes where. I only care about easily evaluating whether something is worth the price. Seriously. I don't care if the total price consists of 100% tax or 0% tax. I care only what it is. I don't ask to know how much you pay the cleaners, how much it costs to operate the pool, how much corporate profit you're booking, or how much the CFO is embezzling. The amount of tax is equally useless to me. I care what it costs me.
  - sebastiennight 2y ago
    Looks like I'm not the only European that has seen a price tag of $9.50 on a product I wanted, only to find out that the $10 bill in my pocket was only two thirds of the amount needed! Look at us poor Europeans with our metric-system money-math
    - chowells 2y ago
      I'm American, actually. I've just managed not to have my brain poisoned by Libertarianism. (The capital L sort.)
    - dambi0 2y ago
      Was the markup just sales tax or did it include tips or extra fees? A 35% plus sales tax seems awfully high where in the US was it?
      - thaumasiotes 2y ago
        A ~10% sales tax is normal, and that will bring $9.50 over the $10 limit.
    - deleted 2y ago
sebastiennight 2y ago
I tried to book a small-group (~12 people) conference room at a US hotel and when I asked for a flipchart, they added "resort fees" and a $200 staff "service fee" to bring the flipchart into the room. This was on top of renting me the flipchart for $107 for 6 hours.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  > renting me the flipchart for $107 for 6 hours Next time, just ship it from Walmart or Amazon and throw it away when done with it.
- bombcar 2y ago
  This is just how hotels make money. The key is to be very nice to the person who actually brings out the flipchart and asked for it on site. Then it’s on them to actually record that they did it and you know what people are lazy enough and failed to record it.
  - sebastiennight 2y ago
    Thanks for the tip, I'll try it next time! I mean even if I had to tip a $20 I'd still be saving a few hundred

tgma 2y ago

Can you think of any downside of that proposal at all? Tax inclusive total means government can screw the business and the end user and hide behind the tax inclusive price tag. Jack up the tax it seems the business is doing it.

jcranmer 2y ago
Funny, given that the product most US consumers are familiar with tax-inclusive pricing (gasoline) is the one product that hasn't had its tax rate changed in decades.
- DragonStrength 2y ago
  Where? They’re constantly futzing with the taxes on it in my state.
ceejayoz 2y ago
Nothing says you can’t put ($40 of this is government taxes) in the receipt.
mkl 2y ago
Tax-exclusive prices hide the true cost and encourage overspending by making things falsely appear cheaper. Their purpose is for businesses to squeeze more from their customers. In NZ the price you see is the price you pay. The sales tax amount is always clearly stated on receipts, invoices, checkouts, online carts, etc. (by law) and the rate has changed twice in history, so everyone knows when it happens and who is responsible. Everything is explicit and nothing is or can be hidden (we don't do tipping either). In comparison when I visited the USA I never knew how much I would be paying for things, which felt fundamentally unfair and customer-opposed.
girvo 2y ago
...the receipts show what tax is charged in the total. This is a total non-issue. Tax-exclusive pricing is ridiculous.
cozzyd 2y ago
Tax rates are easily discoverable (more so than currently hidden things like tariffs).
Arn_Thor 2y ago
The government can not "screw the business and the end user" because tax rates are public. VAT changes don't just happen in secret. Tax changes to specific product categories (such as extra taxes for alcohol in some countries) are publically debated. And if you want lower taxes you try to vote in a more economically right-wing government. The framing of your statement makes it clear you just don't trust/like governments. That's fine, I guess, but it's an incredibly strong bias in your arguments

WalterBright 2y ago

The tax exclusive prices lets you know how much the government is soaking you, rather than hiding it and blaming it on the business.

chowells 2y ago
That's irrelevant. Give me the total price, so I know how much something will cost. I don't care what percentage of it goes where. I only care about easily evaluating whether something is worth the price. Seriously. I don't care if the total price consists of 100% tax or 0% tax. I care only what it is. I don't ask to know how much you pay the cleaners, how much it costs to operate the pool, how much corporate profit you're booking, or how much the CFO is embezzling. The amount of tax is equally useless to me. I care what it costs me.
- sebastiennight 2y ago
  Looks like I'm not the only European that has seen a price tag of $9.50 on a product I wanted, only to find out that the $10 bill in my pocket was only two thirds of the amount needed! Look at us poor Europeans with our metric-system money-math
  - chowells 2y ago
    I'm American, actually. I've just managed not to have my brain poisoned by Libertarianism. (The capital L sort.)
  - dambi0 2y ago
    Was the markup just sales tax or did it include tips or extra fees? A 35% plus sales tax seems awfully high where in the US was it?
    - thaumasiotes 2y ago
      A ~10% sales tax is normal, and that will bring $9.50 over the $10 limit.
  - deleted 2y ago

sebastiennight 2y ago

I tried to book a small-group (~12 people) conference room at a US hotel and when I asked for a flipchart, they added "resort fees" and a $200 staff "service fee" to bring the flipchart into the room. This was on top of renting me the flipchart for $107 for 6 hours.

throwaway2037 2y ago
> renting me the flipchart for $107 for 6 hours Next time, just ship it from Walmart or Amazon and throw it away when done with it.
bombcar 2y ago
This is just how hotels make money. The key is to be very nice to the person who actually brings out the flipchart and asked for it on site. Then it’s on them to actually record that they did it and you know what people are lazy enough and failed to record it.
- sebastiennight 2y ago
  Thanks for the tip, I'll try it next time! I mean even if I had to tip a $20 I'd still be saving a few hundred