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Such a thin veiled whistle blow against woke culture. The very concept of corporate-curated glyphs restricts and normalises communication to a limited range of

by xk_id 2y ago

Such a thin veiled whistle blow against woke culture. The very concept of corporate-curated glyphs restricts and normalises communication to a limited range of concepts pre-approved by the architects of consumer culture. But apparently this is only a problem to you when it tries to discourage armed violence.

theultdev 2y ago
It's not a "veiled whistle blow", it's my personal belief. But yes, I am against woke culture at it's core, vehemently. In no way does an emoji encourage armed violence. Are you against violent video games as well?
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  Woke is good, actually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Speech_(painting)#/media/File:%22Freedom_of_Speech%22_-_NARA_-_513536.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Speech_(painting)#/...
  - theultdev 2y ago
    That is a nice painting, actually.
    - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
      It is. It is also rather unconnected to "woke", at least as far as I understand woke. Woke to me seems to me more about shouting down people than it is about listening to everyone. (So does "anti-woke". I don't think the painting supports either side; it rebukes both sides.)
- qual 2y ago
  (Not the person you were replying to) I'm curious what/how you define "woke culture", because the only definitions of "woke" I've ever heard are basically "thing I don't like" or "the left". Neither of those definitions have helped me understand what you are so vehemently against. Can you help me understand what woke culture is to you? This is a genuine question.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Can you help me understand what woke culture is to you? Within this context it’s replacing guns with water pistols, systematically and comprehensively, in the name of fighting gun violence. On the same token, it’s replacing a water pistol emoji with a gun—in the aftermath of an armed assassination attempt on a Presidential candidate (and former President)—on a platform that regularly censors, in the name of free speech. Performative nonsense designed to appeal to emotions instead of doing something about the implied problem. (Guns and censorship, respectively.)
    - qual 2y ago
      >Performative nonsense designed to appeal to emotions instead of doing something about the implied problem. (Guns and censorship, respectively.) Thanks! This helps me understand it a bit more. Sort of a synonym for "virtue signalling" it seems?
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Sort of a synonym for "virtue signalling" it seems? I genuinely have no idea what that term means anymore.
  - theultdev 2y ago
    It's definitely an umbrella term and we'd be here for a while discussing all facets of it, but in this case in particular it's the movement to censor speech under the guise of anti-gun rhetoric (like an emoji will cause gun violence). That is no different than Christians trying to ban violent video games. Note that I am not the one who brought up the term to the conversation. I did want to avoid the labels as there's always someone who comes up and ask you to define the label instead of talking about the issue itself. In this case, censorship.
    - qual 2y ago
      >Note that I am not the one who brought up the term to the conversation. Of course, but since you said you were vehemently against it, I thought you'd be the better person to give me some perspective and help me learn. >I did want to avoid the labels as there's always someone who comes up and ask you to define the label instead of talking about the issue itself. In this case, censorship. I would have found it much clearer if your comment said "I am against censorship at it's core, vehemently", and as an added bonus you wouldn't be annoyed by me asking about it. But, to be clear, the reason I asked about the label instead of the issue is because I don't understand what issue(s) woke culture represents to you. So trying to talk about those issues would be difficult. My impression so far is that woke culture is more than just censorship. I'm very anti-censorship, but I've also been called "woke" in passing as an insult, so unfortunately I'm still left a bit confused. Thanks anyways, though!
- wewtyflakes 2y ago
  > In no way does an emoji encourage armed violence. Obviously, in a vacuum, an emoji does not do anything at all. Though emojis are used in context to convey intent, just as words are. Would you say words do not encourage armed violence? Sure, the dictionary does not, but when pieced together, narratives can be created that do. That is not to say we should ban words, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend they have no power at all.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > That is not to say we should ban words, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend they have no power at all. Indeed. The whole reason I value freedom of speech is not a love of certain voices, but because of the power of speech to effect change. Took me a long time to realise that while all improvements are change, not all change is an improvement. Dictators fear free speech because it has the power to take away their power. That power can also be used, has been used, to take away democracy.
  - bawolff 2y ago
    But isn't that the point of the person you are replying to? Its the meaning of the ideas being communicated not individual glyphs. A gun emoiji does not neccesarily mean "lets shoot up the place". A water pistol is similar enough to a gun that anyone who has that meaning in mind can easily just use it and be understood. Or they could just use something else with an understood meaning. After all, many emoiji have context specific meanings. An eggplant is not just an eggplant. Its just downright silly to ban things at this level of abstraction. It wont stop people talking about guns.
- therouwboat 2y ago
  So emojis are just funny pictures that don't mean anything? also "Tried, but didn’t like doing crime. GTA5 required shooting police officers in the opening scene. Just couldn’t do it." - Elon Musk
  - theultdev 2y ago
    Similar to words, it's how you use them. And he didn't try to ban GTA, that's his personal opinion of not wanting to commit virtual violence himself.
- sv123 2y ago
  Won't somebody think of Elon's children!?!
- ben_w 2y ago
  Context is king. The sentence "it's time to cut down the tall trees" doesn't seem like it should trigger a genocide, but it did. If you send a firearm emoji in response to someone asking what they think of the 2020 USA presidential election result, that seems to be a fairly explicit encouragement of armed violence. A water pistol, not so much — likewise either "gun" variant in response to plans for summer holiday sports ideas. When it comes to tall trees? Well, are you talking to an arborist or are you the RTLM in 1994.

by xk_id 2y ago

theultdev 2y ago

It's not a "veiled whistle blow", it's my personal belief. But yes, I am against woke culture at it's core, vehemently. In no way does an emoji encourage armed violence. Are you against violent video games as well?

giraffe_lady 2y ago
Woke is good, actually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Speech_(painting)#/media/File:%22Freedom_of_Speech%22_-_NARA_-_513536.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Speech_(painting)#/...
- theultdev 2y ago
  That is a nice painting, actually.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    It is. It is also rather unconnected to "woke", at least as far as I understand woke. Woke to me seems to me more about shouting down people than it is about listening to everyone. (So does "anti-woke". I don't think the painting supports either side; it rebukes both sides.)
qual 2y ago
(Not the person you were replying to) I'm curious what/how you define "woke culture", because the only definitions of "woke" I've ever heard are basically "thing I don't like" or "the left". Neither of those definitions have helped me understand what you are so vehemently against. Can you help me understand what woke culture is to you? This is a genuine question.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Can you help me understand what woke culture is to you? Within this context it’s replacing guns with water pistols, systematically and comprehensively, in the name of fighting gun violence. On the same token, it’s replacing a water pistol emoji with a gun—in the aftermath of an armed assassination attempt on a Presidential candidate (and former President)—on a platform that regularly censors, in the name of free speech. Performative nonsense designed to appeal to emotions instead of doing something about the implied problem. (Guns and censorship, respectively.)
  - qual 2y ago
    >Performative nonsense designed to appeal to emotions instead of doing something about the implied problem. (Guns and censorship, respectively.) Thanks! This helps me understand it a bit more. Sort of a synonym for "virtue signalling" it seems?
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Sort of a synonym for "virtue signalling" it seems? I genuinely have no idea what that term means anymore.
- theultdev 2y ago
  It's definitely an umbrella term and we'd be here for a while discussing all facets of it, but in this case in particular it's the movement to censor speech under the guise of anti-gun rhetoric (like an emoji will cause gun violence). That is no different than Christians trying to ban violent video games. Note that I am not the one who brought up the term to the conversation. I did want to avoid the labels as there's always someone who comes up and ask you to define the label instead of talking about the issue itself. In this case, censorship.
  - qual 2y ago
    >Note that I am not the one who brought up the term to the conversation. Of course, but since you said you were vehemently against it, I thought you'd be the better person to give me some perspective and help me learn. >I did want to avoid the labels as there's always someone who comes up and ask you to define the label instead of talking about the issue itself. In this case, censorship. I would have found it much clearer if your comment said "I am against censorship at it's core, vehemently", and as an added bonus you wouldn't be annoyed by me asking about it. But, to be clear, the reason I asked about the label instead of the issue is because I don't understand what issue(s) woke culture represents to you. So trying to talk about those issues would be difficult. My impression so far is that woke culture is more than just censorship. I'm very anti-censorship, but I've also been called "woke" in passing as an insult, so unfortunately I'm still left a bit confused. Thanks anyways, though!
wewtyflakes 2y ago
> In no way does an emoji encourage armed violence. Obviously, in a vacuum, an emoji does not do anything at all. Though emojis are used in context to convey intent, just as words are. Would you say words do not encourage armed violence? Sure, the dictionary does not, but when pieced together, narratives can be created that do. That is not to say we should ban words, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend they have no power at all.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > That is not to say we should ban words, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend they have no power at all. Indeed. The whole reason I value freedom of speech is not a love of certain voices, but because of the power of speech to effect change. Took me a long time to realise that while all improvements are change, not all change is an improvement. Dictators fear free speech because it has the power to take away their power. That power can also be used, has been used, to take away democracy.
- bawolff 2y ago
  But isn't that the point of the person you are replying to? Its the meaning of the ideas being communicated not individual glyphs. A gun emoiji does not neccesarily mean "lets shoot up the place". A water pistol is similar enough to a gun that anyone who has that meaning in mind can easily just use it and be understood. Or they could just use something else with an understood meaning. After all, many emoiji have context specific meanings. An eggplant is not just an eggplant. Its just downright silly to ban things at this level of abstraction. It wont stop people talking about guns.
therouwboat 2y ago
So emojis are just funny pictures that don't mean anything? also "Tried, but didn’t like doing crime. GTA5 required shooting police officers in the opening scene. Just couldn’t do it." - Elon Musk
- theultdev 2y ago
  Similar to words, it's how you use them. And he didn't try to ban GTA, that's his personal opinion of not wanting to commit virtual violence himself.
sv123 2y ago
Won't somebody think of Elon's children!?!
ben_w 2y ago
Context is king. The sentence "it's time to cut down the tall trees" doesn't seem like it should trigger a genocide, but it did. If you send a firearm emoji in response to someone asking what they think of the 2020 USA presidential election result, that seems to be a fairly explicit encouragement of armed violence. A water pistol, not so much — likewise either "gun" variant in response to plans for summer holiday sports ideas. When it comes to tall trees? Well, are you talking to an arborist or are you the RTLM in 1994.