7 ms·

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processe

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Sometimes your processes are not CPU bound at all, sometimes they are I/O bound. Sometimes in RAM caches can increase performance quite a bit etc. This means swapping HDD and putting faster SSD is enough to speed certain things up. Also, updating RAM only is enough to speed things up in certain other criteria. Besides it is well understood in technical circles where Apple is headed. Make no mistake. Their goal is to kill general purpose computers, and replace them with appliances they control.

ctdonath 14y ago
Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Um, you missed the last line of the post you replied to.
JackC 14y ago
Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. This is true. I for one do all my computing with a goofy grin on my face, while riding a unicycle. In all seriousness, this product will be perfect for me. The lower weight will help with my unicycling, and the 4-core i7 will look great with my butterfly wings.
- idspispopd 14y ago
  You're having an argument with a bunch of InstantExperts™ who are clearly motivated by other sources or tied to luddite ideologies. They're more interested in presenting Apple as an evil empire because this fits their personal objectives. Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits the market. I'm not going to go into the historical precedence of laptops having limited upgradability, but as you've noted something had to give, and soldering the RAM is by no means a new idea.
  - kamaal 14y ago
    >>Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits the market. No one here is saying we tear down our laptops and assemble them back three times a day. But if something like a RAM gets toast on my machine, I would like to get that replaced instead of replacing the whole machine. Why, you might ask. Its because it works out cheaper that way. And besides, I don't throw away my car if some thing little goofs up! Why should I throw away my computer.
    - travisp 14y ago
      You don't have to throw away your car over a small amount of damage (unless it is the frame), but you might have to replace a thousand plus dollar component the size of a macbook.
    - travisp 14y ago
      You don't have to throw away your car over a small amount of damage (unless it is the frame), but you might have to replace a thousand plus dollar component the size of a macbook.
    - masklinn 14y ago
      > But if something like a RAM gets toast on my machine, I would like to get that replaced instead of replacing the whole machine. Historically, Apple tends to be pretty good on support worth the price. If something like a RAM chip is toast, they'll usually replace the board, or even the whole machine.
      - wlesieutre 14y ago
        If you're within warranty. If it's more than a year old (or three if you buy AppleCare), then you're on the hook for a whole new motherboard instead of a commodity stick of RAM.
        pooriaazimi 14y ago
stouset 14y ago
> Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. The elitism here is just disgusting. I suppose all the graphic designers, photographers, programmers, and even just plain old novice users who love Apple products should just pack their bags and go back to pencils and paper. After all, if they're not doing any kind of serious computing, we really ought not cater to their needs, wants, or desires. Computers are obviously only for people running batch processes with 95%+ CPU and I/O utilization.
- kamaal 14y ago
  Its not elitism. Apple is trying very hard to convert a computer into a washing machine. Which is, giving it a specific use, like a TV or a refrigerator and tightly controlling everything behind that use.
  - tsieling 14y ago
    Yeah a washing machine that edits videos, keeps all my stuff together and makes it easy to use. Why don't we just accept that the general purpose, let the user figure it out approach is dead in the water. People are voting with their dollars and they're saying they've had enough of tech that feels like tech. The paradigm changed, we're no longer kings when mom's printer driver is out of date, and it's time to grow up and accept it.
    - kamaal 14y ago
      Washing machine is general enough for its tasks too. A washing machine can wash nearly all kind of clothes. A refrigerator can preserve anything that needs freezing. The defining characteristics of those machines is companies telling me not to worry anything beyond the knobs and dials. And I don't want to worry anything beyond the knobs and dials. But no way in the world would I like to throwaway a washing machine if something small went wrong inside it. That's where the tinkering part comes to play. I don't mind the knobs and dials, but claiming that not having user serviceable parts is not a requisite of usability gets really very difficult to believe in.
sausagefeet 14y ago
Why would I run any serious computation on a glorified iPad? I have a MacBook Air and it's great for its purpose: a very light, very portable, thin terminal. Running anything that is seriously bounded by CPU or I/O would be silly.
scott_s 14y ago
You're right, the machine in front of me does not do any "serious computing." It's just a device which lets me communicate with the people I work with, look up things on the internet, and enable me to work on a ~500 core cluster. The computer in front of me is basically just an appliance now. That has no bearing on the actual work I do.
bbwharris 14y ago
Serious computing? Like gaming? Last I checked typing text files and compiling them is more serious than most users and doesn't require massive clusters to accomplish.
- super_mario 14y ago
  If Apple gets their way, typing text and compiling it to code and running it on your appliance will become illegal. How often do you run custom code on your other appliances? Exactly. There will simply be no expectation of running custom code on a "computer" once it is turned into an appliance. Look at iPad. It's more powerful than PCs of the 90s yet no one even expects to run their custom code on it. This is where Macs and OS X are headed to.
  - bbwharris 14y ago
    Seriously doubt it, but if that happens most of us will go back to Linux.
    - Anderkent 14y ago
      Not if Apple starts selling macs with secure boot permanently enabled. Which I wouldn't be very surprised about.
  - omgsean 14y ago
    It won't even matter by then because the Illuminati will have already started the New World Order and we'll all be in secret FEMA camps.
    - whateverer 14y ago
      "Most users never program their computers themselves. Anyone can plainly see the historical trend from the late 80s onward that the average user has no interest in the internals of their computers or in investing time in automation which experts can do for them. I support Apple 100% in moving forward and removing the option of running, or producing, unreliable homebrewed code without authorization. Actual programming experts can get a Mac Pro with and their programming license from Apple, or just run Linux on a PC." Yes, I certainly trust that we won't be seeing posts like the above in the eventuality that Apple puts further restrictions on their (customer's) computers.
mironathetin 14y ago
"Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing." Yeah,... Astro-Physicist here. 90% of my colleagues use Macs and we write most of the software that controls satellites and earth bound observatories on Macs. Just an old science, entertainment, with no real or useable results :o).
- BitMastro 14y ago
  I'm curious: what language do you working with? Are you using as IDE (if you are using one)?
  - mironathetin 14y ago
    java, jython (90% of the time), C, C++, python, Netbeans, some use Eclipse (cough), emacs, bbedit, vim
    - BitMastro 14y ago
      Thanks!
- super_mario 14y ago
  Mathematician and software developer here (and the guy you are responding to) and ALL my personal computers are Macs too. I criticize Apple's direction because I sincerely do not think it is good for the future of general purpose computing. The software you write for your scientific computing might become "illegal" if Apple gets it their way, and you will first have to pay Apple a cut before you can run it, or it may become plain impossible to program your computer at all. How often do you run custom code on your other appliances? Exactly. If computers become locked down appliances you won't be able to or expected to run custom code on them either. How many people expect to compile and run stuff on their iPad? None, but it's a perfectly capable machine, more powerful than PCs of the 90s.
  - mironathetin 14y ago

ctdonath 14y ago

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. Um, you missed the last line of the post you replied to.

JackC 14y ago

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. This is true. I for one do all my computing with a goofy grin on my face, while riding a unicycle. In all seriousness, this product will be perfect for me. The lower weight will help with my unicycling, and the 4-core i7 will look great with my butterfly wings.

idspispopd 14y ago
You're having an argument with a bunch of InstantExperts™ who are clearly motivated by other sources or tied to luddite ideologies. They're more interested in presenting Apple as an evil empire because this fits their personal objectives. Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits the market. I'm not going to go into the historical precedence of laptops having limited upgradability, but as you've noted something had to give, and soldering the RAM is by no means a new idea.
- kamaal 14y ago
  >>Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits the market. No one here is saying we tear down our laptops and assemble them back three times a day. But if something like a RAM gets toast on my machine, I would like to get that replaced instead of replacing the whole machine. Why, you might ask. Its because it works out cheaper that way. And besides, I don't throw away my car if some thing little goofs up! Why should I throw away my computer.
  - travisp 14y ago
    You don't have to throw away your car over a small amount of damage (unless it is the frame), but you might have to replace a thousand plus dollar component the size of a macbook.
  - travisp 14y ago
    You don't have to throw away your car over a small amount of damage (unless it is the frame), but you might have to replace a thousand plus dollar component the size of a macbook.
  - masklinn 14y ago
    > But if something like a RAM gets toast on my machine, I would like to get that replaced instead of replacing the whole machine. Historically, Apple tends to be pretty good on support worth the price. If something like a RAM chip is toast, they'll usually replace the board, or even the whole machine.
    - wlesieutre 14y ago
      If you're within warranty. If it's more than a year old (or three if you buy AppleCare), then you're on the hook for a whole new motherboard instead of a commodity stick of RAM.
      - pooriaazimi 14y ago

stouset 14y ago

> Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. The elitism here is just disgusting. I suppose all the graphic designers, photographers, programmers, and even just plain old novice users who love Apple products should just pack their bags and go back to pencils and paper. After all, if they're not doing any kind of serious computing, we really ought not cater to their needs, wants, or desires. Computers are obviously only for people running batch processes with 95%+ CPU and I/O utilization.

kamaal 14y ago
Its not elitism. Apple is trying very hard to convert a computer into a washing machine. Which is, giving it a specific use, like a TV or a refrigerator and tightly controlling everything behind that use.
- tsieling 14y ago
  Yeah a washing machine that edits videos, keeps all my stuff together and makes it easy to use. Why don't we just accept that the general purpose, let the user figure it out approach is dead in the water. People are voting with their dollars and they're saying they've had enough of tech that feels like tech. The paradigm changed, we're no longer kings when mom's printer driver is out of date, and it's time to grow up and accept it.
  - kamaal 14y ago
    Washing machine is general enough for its tasks too. A washing machine can wash nearly all kind of clothes. A refrigerator can preserve anything that needs freezing. The defining characteristics of those machines is companies telling me not to worry anything beyond the knobs and dials. And I don't want to worry anything beyond the knobs and dials. But no way in the world would I like to throwaway a washing machine if something small went wrong inside it. That's where the tinkering part comes to play. I don't mind the knobs and dials, but claiming that not having user serviceable parts is not a requisite of usability gets really very difficult to believe in.

sausagefeet 14y ago

Why would I run any serious computation on a glorified iPad? I have a MacBook Air and it's great for its purpose: a very light, very portable, thin terminal. Running anything that is seriously bounded by CPU or I/O would be silly.

scott_s 14y ago

You're right, the machine in front of me does not do any "serious computing." It's just a device which lets me communicate with the people I work with, look up things on the internet, and enable me to work on a ~500 core cluster. The computer in front of me is basically just an appliance now. That has no bearing on the actual work I do.

bbwharris 14y ago

Serious computing? Like gaming? Last I checked typing text files and compiling them is more serious than most users and doesn't require massive clusters to accomplish.

super_mario 14y ago
If Apple gets their way, typing text and compiling it to code and running it on your appliance will become illegal. How often do you run custom code on your other appliances? Exactly. There will simply be no expectation of running custom code on a "computer" once it is turned into an appliance. Look at iPad. It's more powerful than PCs of the 90s yet no one even expects to run their custom code on it. This is where Macs and OS X are headed to.
- bbwharris 14y ago
  Seriously doubt it, but if that happens most of us will go back to Linux.
  - Anderkent 14y ago
    Not if Apple starts selling macs with secure boot permanently enabled. Which I wouldn't be very surprised about.
- omgsean 14y ago
  It won't even matter by then because the Illuminati will have already started the New World Order and we'll all be in secret FEMA camps.
  - whateverer 14y ago
    "Most users never program their computers themselves. Anyone can plainly see the historical trend from the late 80s onward that the average user has no interest in the internals of their computers or in investing time in automation which experts can do for them. I support Apple 100% in moving forward and removing the option of running, or producing, unreliable homebrewed code without authorization. Actual programming experts can get a Mac Pro with and their programming license from Apple, or just run Linux on a PC." Yes, I certainly trust that we won't be seeing posts like the above in the eventuality that Apple puts further restrictions on their (customer's) computers.

mironathetin 14y ago

"Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing." Yeah,... Astro-Physicist here. 90% of my colleagues use Macs and we write most of the software that controls satellites and earth bound observatories on Macs. Just an old science, entertainment, with no real or useable results :o).

BitMastro 14y ago
I'm curious: what language do you working with? Are you using as IDE (if you are using one)?
- mironathetin 14y ago
  java, jython (90% of the time), C, C++, python, Netbeans, some use Eclipse (cough), emacs, bbedit, vim
  - BitMastro 14y ago
    Thanks!
super_mario 14y ago
Mathematician and software developer here (and the guy you are responding to) and ALL my personal computers are Macs too. I criticize Apple's direction because I sincerely do not think it is good for the future of general purpose computing. The software you write for your scientific computing might become "illegal" if Apple gets it their way, and you will first have to pay Apple a cut before you can run it, or it may become plain impossible to program your computer at all. How often do you run custom code on your other appliances? Exactly. If computers become locked down appliances you won't be able to or expected to run custom code on them either. How many people expect to compile and run stuff on their iPad? None, but it's a perfectly capable machine, more powerful than PCs of the 90s.
- mironathetin 14y ago