7 ms·

> # Reddit believes in an open internet, but not the misuse of public content. Calling it "public" content in the very act of exercising their ownership over

> # Reddit believes in an open internet, but not the misuse of public content. Calling it "public" content in the very act of exercising their ownership over it. The balls on whoever wrote that.

pas 2y ago
it's even worse. it's not theirs (it's the users'), they are merely hosting it and using it (ToS gives them a fancy irrevocable license I guess). so they can do whatever they want with it and the actual owners/authors have no chance to really influence Reddit at all to make it crawlable. (the GDPR-like data takeout is nice, but ... completely useless in these cases where the value is in the composition and aggregation with other users' content.)
- deepfriedbits 2y ago
  On top of that, a sizable chunk of Reddit content is ripped from elsewhere, whether videos, images, etc.
- visarga 2y ago
  > the GDPR like data takeout is nice Is there a way to export my history? How?
  - pas 2y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/settings/data-request https://www.reddit.com/settings/data-request (and there's some help article for it that I didn't read, but google found this first https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043048352-How-do-I-request-a-copy-of-my-Reddit-data-and-information https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004304835... that's how I got to the link)
    - visarga 2y ago
      Thank you, it worked
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    I tried it many months back when they glitch-killed my decade-plus account. (Yes, I'm still bitter over the kafkaesque injustice.) Anyway, you basically submit a request and then later they will email you a link to a zip file that contains a free dozen CSV files with unescaped newlines. One for all the comments you made, one for up/down-votes, one for blocked users, etc.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  actually owners/authors like me would not want our stuff crawlable because that gives up our ownership. When I am answering some random dude on reddit with a problem I want that dude to read my solution. I don't want this to be crawled and forever stored (probably deanonymized) or enshrined in a dozen commercial LLMs. There is substack for that stuff.
  - pas 2y ago
    have you heard about DMs?
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      That's why more and more exchanges are moving to DMs and closed communities. Because we don't plan on stuff we intend for participants in the discussion to be harvested but it more and more is. If reddit breaks that trend I only welcome it.
  - RealityVoid 2y ago
    I'll be honest... I don't care about this thing. I view public posts as something that belongs to the public domain and if that is searchable, all the better, other people can reach my post. And if that is what LLM's are trained on, also, great, I hope it will be useful to some people. What I _do_ care about is an even playing fields and access to _all_ llms to be trained in that data. In the end, I view potential AGI's as a common consciousness brainchild.
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      OK. I see "AGI" as a buzzword and current ML trend as exploitation of creative works that profits big tech. They will always have bigger computers and get more out of what we create increasing wealth gap, unless we stop it
      - pas 2y ago
        Social support (or we can even call it "[corporate] social responsibility") is a political question/problem/thing. Endless iterations of the discussion about how copyright should/shouldn't be are meaningless without considering the larger social context. The vast majority of creators (artists!?) are not compensated at all, and the users' (content consumers'? the public's?) attention is already 100% fully saturated. So GenAI chrurning out more kitsch hardly changes that. (It got popular when it was novel, and ... that was it for now. And it became one more brush in the evergrowing workshop.) And if/when a company creates a product out of it, then that product needs to be scrutinized and we should consider the ethical, social, and political problems. (Because ... politics is a blunt tool whereas ethics is as infinitely nuanced as we make it, whereas actual social considerations ought to be pragmatic and fair.) And that's the problem. Users benefit from cheaper access to customized content. (In other words, arguably it's a net positive thing that they can - for example - ask some GenAI tool to make them a nice picture for their friend's birthday.) So what's the cost of this? Does it make some people jobless? Is that good or bad? (Is it good that plant breeding programs, fertilizers, tractors, and irrigation systems made a lot of agricultural workers jobless? Well, in some sense yes as allows a few people to feed many, freeing up time for others to become doctors and artists. In some sense bad, because our current socioeconomic system does not provide real social support - despite enormous redistribution of GDP. [Because brutal inefficiencies in allocation of that surplus. And that's again a political problem.]) ... and of course here the status quo bias leads to "technological progress chipping away at inefficiencies" in a capitalist reality translates to "even more things get commoditized", and that in turn in the current shitty socioeconomic system equals "lots of externalities are not priced in, and lots of people are forced to drastically change their lives to adjust to new prices" (ie. price of their labor and/or products going down, so they need to change jobs, yet they barely get any support for doing so) ... and of course ethically it's bad that most people virtually uncritically accept and enjoy the results of progress (new products and services) without giving a fuck about the costs.
shit_game 2y ago
Their license/Eula clearly state that Reddit has perpetual whatever to content posted on Reddit, but relying solely on DMCA for "stolen" content _yet again_ feels like a terrible way to deal with non-original content. Part of me hopes that Reddit gets hit with some new precidence-setting lawsuits regarding non-original content that requires useful attribution, but I double t that will ever happen.
- account42 2y ago
  An EULA does not change the morality of the situation anyway. They are a leech profiting off users generating content who are now upset about not getting a cut from third-parties also profiting from said user generated content.
  - cyanydeez 2y ago
    Also, EULAs cant violate laws, the same qay you cant sign away your first born child.
  - nsonha 2y ago
    > a leech profiting off users can also say every humans are leech benefiting off free software (creators) and complaining about their worthless chitchat, barely usable because of its basic semantics, being "stolen".
    - j5155 2y ago
      1. That’s kind of the point of free software, is it not? If you don’t want people “leeching” off of your software for free, don’t make it free. 2. Reddit is an amazing source of coding information and general Q&A on an extremely wide variety of topics. I would not characterize all of it as chitchat.
Khelavaster 2y ago
The Fake News police should shut down this sort of messaging
tn135 2y ago
[dead]

> # Reddit believes in an open internet, but not the misuse of public content. Calling it "public" content in the very act of exercising their ownership over it. The balls on whoever wrote that.

pas 2y ago

it's even worse. it's not theirs (it's the users'), they are merely hosting it and using it (ToS gives them a fancy irrevocable license I guess). so they can do whatever they want with it and the actual owners/authors have no chance to really influence Reddit at all to make it crawlable. (the GDPR-like data takeout is nice, but ... completely useless in these cases where the value is in the composition and aggregation with other users' content.)

deepfriedbits 2y ago
On top of that, a sizable chunk of Reddit content is ripped from elsewhere, whether videos, images, etc.
visarga 2y ago
> the GDPR like data takeout is nice Is there a way to export my history? How?
- pas 2y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/settings/data-request https://www.reddit.com/settings/data-request (and there's some help article for it that I didn't read, but google found this first https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043048352-How-do-I-request-a-copy-of-my-Reddit-data-and-information https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004304835... that's how I got to the link)
  - visarga 2y ago
    Thank you, it worked
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Terr_ 2y ago
  I tried it many months back when they glitch-killed my decade-plus account. (Yes, I'm still bitter over the kafkaesque injustice.) Anyway, you basically submit a request and then later they will email you a link to a zip file that contains a free dozen CSV files with unescaped newlines. One for all the comments you made, one for up/down-votes, one for blocked users, etc.
throwaway290 2y ago
actually owners/authors like me would not want our stuff crawlable because that gives up our ownership. When I am answering some random dude on reddit with a problem I want that dude to read my solution. I don't want this to be crawled and forever stored (probably deanonymized) or enshrined in a dozen commercial LLMs. There is substack for that stuff.
- pas 2y ago
  have you heard about DMs?
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    That's why more and more exchanges are moving to DMs and closed communities. Because we don't plan on stuff we intend for participants in the discussion to be harvested but it more and more is. If reddit breaks that trend I only welcome it.
- RealityVoid 2y ago
  I'll be honest... I don't care about this thing. I view public posts as something that belongs to the public domain and if that is searchable, all the better, other people can reach my post. And if that is what LLM's are trained on, also, great, I hope it will be useful to some people. What I _do_ care about is an even playing fields and access to _all_ llms to be trained in that data. In the end, I view potential AGI's as a common consciousness brainchild.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    OK. I see "AGI" as a buzzword and current ML trend as exploitation of creative works that profits big tech. They will always have bigger computers and get more out of what we create increasing wealth gap, unless we stop it
    - pas 2y ago
      Social support (or we can even call it "[corporate] social responsibility") is a political question/problem/thing. Endless iterations of the discussion about how copyright should/shouldn't be are meaningless without considering the larger social context. The vast majority of creators (artists!?) are not compensated at all, and the users' (content consumers'? the public's?) attention is already 100% fully saturated. So GenAI chrurning out more kitsch hardly changes that. (It got popular when it was novel, and ... that was it for now. And it became one more brush in the evergrowing workshop.) And if/when a company creates a product out of it, then that product needs to be scrutinized and we should consider the ethical, social, and political problems. (Because ... politics is a blunt tool whereas ethics is as infinitely nuanced as we make it, whereas actual social considerations ought to be pragmatic and fair.) And that's the problem. Users benefit from cheaper access to customized content. (In other words, arguably it's a net positive thing that they can - for example - ask some GenAI tool to make them a nice picture for their friend's birthday.) So what's the cost of this? Does it make some people jobless? Is that good or bad? (Is it good that plant breeding programs, fertilizers, tractors, and irrigation systems made a lot of agricultural workers jobless? Well, in some sense yes as allows a few people to feed many, freeing up time for others to become doctors and artists. In some sense bad, because our current socioeconomic system does not provide real social support - despite enormous redistribution of GDP. [Because brutal inefficiencies in allocation of that surplus. And that's again a political problem.]) ... and of course here the status quo bias leads to "technological progress chipping away at inefficiencies" in a capitalist reality translates to "even more things get commoditized", and that in turn in the current shitty socioeconomic system equals "lots of externalities are not priced in, and lots of people are forced to drastically change their lives to adjust to new prices" (ie. price of their labor and/or products going down, so they need to change jobs, yet they barely get any support for doing so) ... and of course ethically it's bad that most people virtually uncritically accept and enjoy the results of progress (new products and services) without giving a fuck about the costs.

shit_game 2y ago

Their license/Eula clearly state that Reddit has perpetual whatever to content posted on Reddit, but relying solely on DMCA for "stolen" content _yet again_ feels like a terrible way to deal with non-original content. Part of me hopes that Reddit gets hit with some new precidence-setting lawsuits regarding non-original content that requires useful attribution, but I double t that will ever happen.

account42 2y ago
An EULA does not change the morality of the situation anyway. They are a leech profiting off users generating content who are now upset about not getting a cut from third-parties also profiting from said user generated content.
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  Also, EULAs cant violate laws, the same qay you cant sign away your first born child.
- nsonha 2y ago
  > a leech profiting off users can also say every humans are leech benefiting off free software (creators) and complaining about their worthless chitchat, barely usable because of its basic semantics, being "stolen".
  - j5155 2y ago
    1. That’s kind of the point of free software, is it not? If you don’t want people “leeching” off of your software for free, don’t make it free. 2. Reddit is an amazing source of coding information and general Q&A on an extremely wide variety of topics. I would not characterize all of it as chitchat.

Khelavaster 2y ago

The Fake News police should shut down this sort of messaging

tn135 2y ago

[dead]