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And just to point out you don't have to go the Ayn Rand route to come up with an alternative..... I believe our virtues are built out of our vices. Selfishnes

And just to point out you don't have to go the Ayn Rand route to come up with an alternative..... I believe our virtues are built out of our vices. Selfishness can clearly cause harmful actions, but it can also be a strong motivator for building a common good as well, and these are not mutually exclusive. Indeed every vice I can think of can be built into a virtue. In this view it isn't virtuous or not to be selfish, but rather the manner in which we are selfish (or lustful, or envious, or angry, etc) that creates virtue or vice. Order your vices and they become your virtues.

mindcrime 14y ago
And just to point out you don't have to go the Ayn Rand route to come up with an alternative... No, but one should probably consider what Rand had to say about selfishness, when considering discussions of this nature. Her ideas make a lot of sense; and have been a positive influence on a lot of people.
- einhverfr 14y ago
  I guess the way I look at Rand is a using her works is ideally a bit like using Nietzsche (and indeed I see a lot of continuity in these two thinkers). Their actual ideas are interesting solely as an exercise in inverting the way we normally think about things and thus creating a void where we can create something new. The nice thing about playing with inverting opposites is that it is useful in destroying what we thought we know. I wouldn't treat the inversion as any more valuable than what it inverts though.
  - mindcrime 14y ago
    I'm not exactly an Ayn Rand scholar, but AIUI, Rand was influenced by Nietzsche and claimed him as such an influence early in her career... but at some point later in her career she broke ways with him and adopted a more negative outlook on his ideas. At any rate, I can definitely see some overlap or correspondence in their works (disclaimer: I'm also not a Nietzsche scholar).

mindcrime 14y ago

And just to point out you don't have to go the Ayn Rand route to come up with an alternative... No, but one should probably consider what Rand had to say about selfishness, when considering discussions of this nature. Her ideas make a lot of sense; and have been a positive influence on a lot of people.

einhverfr 14y ago
I guess the way I look at Rand is a using her works is ideally a bit like using Nietzsche (and indeed I see a lot of continuity in these two thinkers). Their actual ideas are interesting solely as an exercise in inverting the way we normally think about things and thus creating a void where we can create something new. The nice thing about playing with inverting opposites is that it is useful in destroying what we thought we know. I wouldn't treat the inversion as any more valuable than what it inverts though.
- mindcrime 14y ago
  I'm not exactly an Ayn Rand scholar, but AIUI, Rand was influenced by Nietzsche and claimed him as such an influence early in her career... but at some point later in her career she broke ways with him and adopted a more negative outlook on his ideas. At any rate, I can definitely see some overlap or correspondence in their works (disclaimer: I'm also not a Nietzsche scholar).