4 ms·

I would love to see HS2 reinstated, but I agree that it is not likely at this time. There are likely higher priority projects that should go ahead first (some f

I would love to see HS2 reinstated, but I agree that it is not likely at this time. There are likely higher priority projects that should go ahead first (some form of Northern Powerhouse, for example). At a minimum, though, I do hope that they protect the route for HS2 north of Birmingham even if construction is indefinitely deferred. It is going to be needed eventually.

panick21_ 2y ago
HS2 is by far the most important transportation project, it massively impacts the whole rail system. HS2 connects North and South like never before. And it massively improves what you can do with regional and local trains on the rest of the network. And its pretty much ready to go. Work is lined up and planed. All it needs is political support and funding. Other projects should be done, but they should be planned in the understanding of how the whole network is reworked with HS2.
- michaelt 2y ago
  > And its pretty much ready to go. Work is lined up and planed. Is it? Or does the plan need a bunch of revisions, to restore the link to Euston and address the cost over-runs? We all know there's not much money left. And politically speaking, Labour needs to give the north of england a fair deal on infrastructure spending, to shore up wavering support in red wall seats. HS2 is an exciting project that a lot of work has already been done on, it'd be totally cool if it did go ahead - but I'm not holding my breath.
  - panick21_ 2y ago
    There is quite a lot of work left in terms of detailed track planning. People that were working on that were all taken of the project. But this can be restarted, these projects are on-ice, not dead. Its certainty more ready then any potential large scale project in the North only. > We all know there's not much money left. Not sure what that means. > And politically speaking, Labour needs to give the north of england a fair deal on infrastructure spending HS2 is the best thing that can happen to the North, far better then any other possible prject. I'm not sure why you are not seeing this. Express trains to London are ruining all the local network on the traditional main lines, and thus all connected branch lines. HS2 will put all the express trains onto HS2. Meaning all of a sudden all the other lines have massive amounts of utilization free that can finally be used for regular regional and local travel.
    - michaelt 2y ago
      >> We all know there's not much money left. > Not sure what that means. What it means is: 1. The UK national debt is high, about 7% of public spending is on interest payments. The debt-to-GDP ratio is the worst it's been in 60 years. 2. The current overall tax rate is the highest it's been since the 1960s. We might be able to get some extra money by going after tax cheats and suchlike, but it's probably not going to be easy; we don't have the money yet. 3. Previously we've tried cutting back on public services to get the debt down - "austerity" as it was called - and it was not regarded as a big success. 4. In fact, there have been loads of strikes and a long period of under-investment in public services. So we could probably spend quite a chunk of money just stopping the roofs falling down on the schools we've already got, to say nothing of building anything new. 5. Previous attempts to move public debt off the books, like PFI contracts, turned out to cost the taxpayer more in the long term. 6. Truss attempted to spur GDP growth to improve the debt-to-GDP ratio, and it went terribly. 7. Individuals aren't any better, with the high levels of mortgage debt and student loan debt, rising fuel bills and a cost-of-living crisis. We're a hardy nation, we've dealt with worse and we'll get through this - but the reality is Starmer doesn't have a lot of cash to splash around.
      - smcl 2y ago
        So what do you do in times like this? Do you continue austerity and cutbacks - something that has worsened the UK economy over the last 14 years - or do you invest in public infrastructure - something which is near universally accepted as improving the health of an economy?
      - panick21_ 2y ago
        I'm baffled why everything I consume from Britain is damn pessimistic. So, you can't invest in HS2 because money and debt. But anytime you try to save money it also doesn't work. So best do nothing and start drinking I guess??? > We're a hardy nation, we've dealt with worse and we'll get through this Well the people wont all just move. And UK wont collapse. But the question is, will it be as a nation as rich as Nordics or more like Italy. > but the reality is Starmer doesn't have a lot of cash to splash around. Many nations have higher debt then Britain. HS2 and BritishRail can turn Britain from a subpar train country into one of the best. Its just a matter of actually doing it. If that not worth investing in, then nothing is.
  - willyt 2y ago
    They’ve already built the most expensive bit; all the tunnels under Home Counties Tory constituencies. The line to Birmingham has cost ~£100bn. To finish it to Manchester would cost another ~£30bn for about the same distance again. They should at least finish it to Crewe where it can actually start to relieve traffic from the West Coast Mainline which is full; you can hardly ever find tickets less than £150 return and trains are often packed. Compared to TGV UK trains are double the time double the price and half the legroom and too much vibration to easily be able to select a paragraph of text with a trackpad. Transport emissions are significant part of UK emissions and replacing 150gCO2/km journeys with 9gCO2/km would help to cut into these massively.

panick21_ 2y ago

HS2 is by far the most important transportation project, it massively impacts the whole rail system. HS2 connects North and South like never before. And it massively improves what you can do with regional and local trains on the rest of the network. And its pretty much ready to go. Work is lined up and planed. All it needs is political support and funding. Other projects should be done, but they should be planned in the understanding of how the whole network is reworked with HS2.

michaelt 2y ago
> And its pretty much ready to go. Work is lined up and planed. Is it? Or does the plan need a bunch of revisions, to restore the link to Euston and address the cost over-runs? We all know there's not much money left. And politically speaking, Labour needs to give the north of england a fair deal on infrastructure spending, to shore up wavering support in red wall seats. HS2 is an exciting project that a lot of work has already been done on, it'd be totally cool if it did go ahead - but I'm not holding my breath.
- panick21_ 2y ago
  There is quite a lot of work left in terms of detailed track planning. People that were working on that were all taken of the project. But this can be restarted, these projects are on-ice, not dead. Its certainty more ready then any potential large scale project in the North only. > We all know there's not much money left. Not sure what that means. > And politically speaking, Labour needs to give the north of england a fair deal on infrastructure spending HS2 is the best thing that can happen to the North, far better then any other possible prject. I'm not sure why you are not seeing this. Express trains to London are ruining all the local network on the traditional main lines, and thus all connected branch lines. HS2 will put all the express trains onto HS2. Meaning all of a sudden all the other lines have massive amounts of utilization free that can finally be used for regular regional and local travel.
  - michaelt 2y ago
    >> We all know there's not much money left. > Not sure what that means. What it means is: 1. The UK national debt is high, about 7% of public spending is on interest payments. The debt-to-GDP ratio is the worst it's been in 60 years. 2. The current overall tax rate is the highest it's been since the 1960s. We might be able to get some extra money by going after tax cheats and suchlike, but it's probably not going to be easy; we don't have the money yet. 3. Previously we've tried cutting back on public services to get the debt down - "austerity" as it was called - and it was not regarded as a big success. 4. In fact, there have been loads of strikes and a long period of under-investment in public services. So we could probably spend quite a chunk of money just stopping the roofs falling down on the schools we've already got, to say nothing of building anything new. 5. Previous attempts to move public debt off the books, like PFI contracts, turned out to cost the taxpayer more in the long term. 6. Truss attempted to spur GDP growth to improve the debt-to-GDP ratio, and it went terribly. 7. Individuals aren't any better, with the high levels of mortgage debt and student loan debt, rising fuel bills and a cost-of-living crisis. We're a hardy nation, we've dealt with worse and we'll get through this - but the reality is Starmer doesn't have a lot of cash to splash around.
    - smcl 2y ago
      So what do you do in times like this? Do you continue austerity and cutbacks - something that has worsened the UK economy over the last 14 years - or do you invest in public infrastructure - something which is near universally accepted as improving the health of an economy?
    - panick21_ 2y ago
      I'm baffled why everything I consume from Britain is damn pessimistic. So, you can't invest in HS2 because money and debt. But anytime you try to save money it also doesn't work. So best do nothing and start drinking I guess??? > We're a hardy nation, we've dealt with worse and we'll get through this Well the people wont all just move. And UK wont collapse. But the question is, will it be as a nation as rich as Nordics or more like Italy. > but the reality is Starmer doesn't have a lot of cash to splash around. Many nations have higher debt then Britain. HS2 and BritishRail can turn Britain from a subpar train country into one of the best. Its just a matter of actually doing it. If that not worth investing in, then nothing is.
- willyt 2y ago
  They’ve already built the most expensive bit; all the tunnels under Home Counties Tory constituencies. The line to Birmingham has cost ~£100bn. To finish it to Manchester would cost another ~£30bn for about the same distance again. They should at least finish it to Crewe where it can actually start to relieve traffic from the West Coast Mainline which is full; you can hardly ever find tickets less than £150 return and trains are often packed. Compared to TGV UK trains are double the time double the price and half the legroom and too much vibration to easily be able to select a paragraph of text with a trackpad. Transport emissions are significant part of UK emissions and replacing 150gCO2/km journeys with 9gCO2/km would help to cut into these massively.