7 ms·

We've built the Ultimate e-Bike Battery that you can Repair and Refill

71 points by oulipo 2y ago

oulipo 2y ago
The Infinite Battery is made to be repairable and refillable: It's launching as a Kickstarter in September (disclaimer: I'm affiliated), and there is an offer for early-backers here https://get.gouach.com/2 https://get.gouach.com/2 for a 33% discount on the shipping price! - refillable in 5 minutes (put new cells every 3 years, costs $48 instead of buying a new battery) - change the electronics easily - connected (sends data and safety alerts) - FIREPROOF casing! there's been waaaaaay too many lithium fires! The battery has already been produced for 1500 bikes running in shared mobility for multiple years in France! Don't forget to register on the pre-launch if you want to have a discount on the price when we launch in September! ($330 instead of $450)
- cinntaile 2y ago
  You don't mention the battery chemistry on the website. What is it?
  - datavirtue 2y ago
    Whatever type you buy to replace the cells.
  - cl3misch 2y ago
    The cells are standard 18650 cells with according chemistry. You are supposed to supply them yourself! (maybe not initially, but they emphasize multiple times that you can/should change the cells inside the pack every three years)
  - fuzzfactor 2y ago
    I'm a chemical guy but that's not really a question to me. Looks like it's supposed to be the same kind of cells as "90%" of all other ebikes. The big difference is that the cells are not welded together like ordinary power packs are, allowing for straightforward exchange of cells individually. Kind of a brilliant engineering design which lots of users should be able to accomplish the task using minimal tools, without having to go to a repair shop for a renewed battery. Plus you could make sure you used only the best cells having an impeccable reputation and highest reliability. The guy is a physics PhD, and for me it's still measurement & testing 24/7, so I would wonder what kind of test equipment he has at his disposal, or maybe has his own lab without relying on outside facilities, if any. I'm no battery expert but that would probably give me an idea of what kind of readings I would like to see. It would be great if we could count on a level of technical documentation far in excess of what's out there from the non-PhD-run companies. A possible deficiency that comes to mind is the convenient, but small number of tools that are supposed to be enough for routine maintenance. If it doesn't already exist, maybe there should be a PhD-level cell checker that is affordable for the user also, to go along with the hand tools. Also a final assembly test rig would be good and that would seem to allow a layer of quality control to reach down to the user (re-)assembly process.
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      The "physics PhD" is also posting fake reviews on his website...
      - vallettea 2y ago
        which one ?
        constantcrying 2y ago
        All of them presumably. The first one claims that the customer in 2022 has had used the battery for a year already, meaning he has received it in 2021. He specifically claims that it is the battery which is promoted on that site, which will get a Kickstarter in a few months. Obviously that can not be a genuine review. Fake endorsements are a very common tactic on scam sites, where some snake oil is sold and you have "real people" giving extremely nice quotes about how great the product is.
        dzhiurgis 2y ago
        What's so snake oil about this? This is not claiming something impossible or outside of realm of engineering. It's just a battery case.
        oulipo 2y ago
        Hi! Thanks for your comment! We are a legit company, and we exist for 3 years (we even fundraised: https://www.breega.com/gouach-secures-e3-3m-seed-funding/ https://www.breega.com/gouach-secures-e3-3m-seed-funding/) The battery that we sell on the Kickstarter is our final product (the "v3" of our battery), but we had many initial clients (who came for bike electric conversion in our shop) and B2B customers on our previous prototypes, hence the reviews We just thought we had a product which worked great now that we can open it to the general public, hence the Kickstarter: as we're still a startup, the economic model of the Kickstarter where we get the cash upfront will allow us to build a large batch of batteries for much cheaper
  - vallettea 2y ago
    classical NMC cells. In our case DMEGC 32E
- chrismartin 2y ago
  > FIREPROOF casing! Have you tested this, perhaps by shorting a few unprotected cells in a full pack? Have a video? :) A lithium ion cell in thermal runaway produces a LOT of heat that must go somewhere. An aluminum case would get hot enough to start a fire, even if it doesn't catch fire itself.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    I think the cells will just burn through the cast aluminum. Maybe enough if lifepo4?
    - oulipo 2y ago
      No! We've managed to design the casing such that it can sustain the fire (and exhaust the fumes with vents), check our doc here https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing
  - grumple 2y ago
    The casing is fireproof, but that doesn't mean the things around it are fireproof!
    - oulipo 2y ago
      Of course! But at least your house doesn't burn down, the casing contains the fire and dissipates the heat, check our doc here https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing
  - vallettea 2y ago
    yes check this out https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing
- kotaKat 2y ago
  If you’re finding 18650s in bulk so cheap that $48 fills the entire pack, I’d be amazed.
  - sbradford26 2y ago
    $48 would require some pretty large order quantities and probably low end cells. https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/featured-products/products/eve-26v-18650 https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/featured-produ... Currently that is the lowest price I can find for a cell at low quantities, that puts it at $62 to fill the pack which is not too far off. Looks like you would need a 33% discount on those cells to get to $48 which is within the realm of possibility if you purchase in large volumes. To get a decent quality samsung cell you are looking at $118 to fill the pack. https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/samsung-30q https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/samsung-30q
    - vallettea 2y ago
      hello, we have selected a few tier 2 cells suppliers after many testing. One of them is DMEGC that had a much better results in terms of performance and impedance spread than Samsung or LG (based on 40k cells)
- BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
  > a 33% discount on the shipping price 33% of how much? Why is there no price listed anywhere? Saying there's a percentage discount but not saying how much the price will be makes it feel very scammy.
  - vallettea 2y ago
    if you move on to the next step you'll see the price (330$) https://get.gouach.com/reservation https://get.gouach.com/reservation
- LunaSea 2y ago
  Why would they need a Kickstarter if the product already exists?
  - oulipo 2y ago
    Hey! The product does exist but the financials to bring it to the market for B2C customers is a bit complicated The kickstarter allows us to get the cash upfront to start the orders
- constantcrying 2y ago
  Who are the people endorsing your battery pack? Are these real people? Why did they say that in 2022 they have used the "Infinite Battery" already for a year? Your product has not launched yet. >- FIREPROOF casing! there's been waaaaaay too many lithium fires! How do you substantiate that claim. On your website you are claiming that Bosch packs are a fire hazard, what tests have you done which Bosch hasn't. What certifications do your Batteries have which the Bosch ones do not? Specifically since your packs can have various types of cells, how do you make sure that different cell types and chemistries are all safe?
  - vallettea 2y ago
    as we manage a lot of batteries in free floating we had fires after some batteries where massacred by users. We worked a lot on the fire issues and if you want to learn more read this: https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing
- bambax 2y ago
  Where in France? Can one find them somewhere over here? Edit 1 -- Tried to do the reservation using Google Pay, it didn't work. The browser blocks the popup by default. If the popup is manually allowed, it appears entirely blank. Edit 2 -- Tried again. Google Pay did work but said "Your billing details will also be shared with the merchant", which means the CC number is sent to the merchant. Thanks but no thanks.
  - oulipo 2y ago
    Thanks for the report! We’re using a third party framework for this pre order site so I’m not sure where the bug comes from I’ll report it!
  - vallettea 2y ago
    hello, thanks for this. We had a lot of orders without issues. The process goes through stipe and the only information we get is the name and email adress of the paying customer. tell me if you have any problem: alex@gouach.com
zemzemi 2y ago
The way this is written makes it feel like a scam. I'm left wondering, what's the catch? I wouldn't trust this company, not based on this page anyhow. Seems dodgy.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ramon156 2y ago
  It's not new, that's mostly the catch. If this were to be successful, the battery has to be really good quality.
  - oulipo 2y ago
    Yes! It’s our third iteration on the design and we’ve fixed all the flaws we’ve been identifying in the last two years We’re really proud of our current product, as we want to bring to market a battery that is more sustainable and hope we will manage it! We did a lot of effort on the engineering and the software quality
- oulipo 2y ago
  Sorry for the confusion! We are a legit company, we even fundraised 3M two years ago https://www.breega.com/gouach-secures-e3-3m-seed-funding/ https://www.breega.com/gouach-secures-e3-3m-seed-funding/ We are doing this kickstarter as we are now targeting B2C consumers in addition to B2B
jaggs 2y ago
I really don't trust Kickstarter any more. Too many bad stories.
- cl3misch 2y ago
  This is not Kickstarter? They have a waiting list for 1$ to get 33% off at launch. Their website states the battery packs are already used in rental bikes in France.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    An account on here which claims to be affiliated says "It's launching as a Kickstarter in September (disclaimer: I'm affiliated), and there is an offer for early-backers here https://get.gouach.com/2 https://get.gouach.com/2 for a 33% discount on the shipping price!"
  - oulipo 2y ago
    This is our launch page in preparation for a Kickstarter in September The difference with most Kickstarters is that we have ALREADY built the product, so it’s totally de-risked We are using a kickstarter because we are a small startup and we don’t have the funds to buy the materials to build the batteries in advance, so the economics of the kickstarter (people pay us upfront) makes it possible for us to build a large batch at a lower cost! Feel free to ask us any additional questions you might have at contact@gouach.com
timonoko 2y ago
I tried to figure out what this is about. Lead-acid battery perhaps, only needs some water sometimes. Those batteries suck, because 1)lead and 2)acid. Also there was a generation of cheap Chinese lead-acid E-bikes already and they did catch fire, mostly because of dodgy wiring.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  Looking at the video it looks like 18650 batteries in a casing that allow them to be replaced without any soldering by just putting them in slots like you do on consumer devices with AA or AAA batteries.
  - martini333 2y ago
    Most consumer devices do not take 40 cells. Letting average joe play with 40+ amps of current at 48 volts is not a great idea.
    - Zak 2y ago
      The design of this pack seems to make it very easy to get right. Right means that the cells must be installed in the correct orientation, must all be the same make, model, and age, and must meet the continuous discharge rate requirement for the application. I'm sure someone will find a way to get it wrong, but people also find ways to mishandle fuel for internal combustion vehicles with predictable consequences. The accident rate doesn't need to be zero for this to be a good idea.
      - vallettea 2y ago
        in cas the user puts it in the wrong direction, there is cell level fusing: https://docs.gouach.com/eco-designed-batteries/additional-benefits-of-the-gouach-approach#1bc2d10834344a9ba428a1dd0a451637 https://docs.gouach.com/eco-designed-batteries/additional-be...
  - fuzzfactor 2y ago
    Actual soldering was determined to be unsuitable way back with Ni-Cd rechargeable/disposables because solder just isn't quite a good enough conductor of electricity for the duty. Plus when current is flowing, where more resistance is encountered will be the places where more heat needs to be dissipated, and solder melts too easily. Which is why they factory-welded them at instantaneous temperatures beyond the melting point of the interconnection itself.
chrismartin 2y ago
Great idea. Is the companion app open-source and free of tracking/surveillance? Does it work with no internet connectivity? Is the BMS communication protocol open, so one could write their own client for it? How about the BMS firmware itself? How do you handle the user installing un-balanced cells in parallel to each other?
- oulipo 2y ago
  The app is not open source but we could, as it is mostly a thin client Most of the code is on the BMS and backend We are having a reflection on open sourcing the BMS code The BMS protocol will definitely be open sources at some point! We love open soirce
yonisto 2y ago
I need something like that for my Makita power tools
- mulletbum 2y ago
  Why? The main point of this is that E-bike batteries are a dime a dozen, built poorly, and hard to replace. Your Makita or better yet a Ryobi, uses their very specific battery that can be used in 50 different tools. The only real thing saved by making it replaceable like this would maybe be the plastic housing around the battery. Considering their batteries have all batteries under one shielding etc. there is less waste by doing it they way they already are as their batteries are universal to a bunch of their tools.
svenfaw 2y ago
Sounds real interesting to me - and I don't even have a bike (yet)! Wish you the very best.
- oulipo 2y ago
  Thanks for your comment! We started this project because we love bikes and we really want to reduce the battery waste! We hope we will manage to bring it to the greatest number!
voidUpdate 2y ago
While the case may be fireproof, is it still fireproof when someone is poking around the battery contacts with a metal screwdriver? Also do you have to carry around a full set of replacement cells so you can "Never be stuck with a dead battery again"?
- linsomniac 2y ago
  I take "never be stuck with a dead battery" to mean: You can replace individual failing cells rather than having to buy a whole new pack. By "dead" they mean "unable to be recharged". As opposed to "dead" meaning a "flat" pack that needs to be recharged.
  - voidUpdate 2y ago
    It feels a little weird to word it like that, if I say "dead battery" or "my phone is dead", I would almost certainly mean "it is out of charge" not "it is unable to be charged"
- tantalor 2y ago
  Stuck in the sense of "your battery doesn't hold a charge anymore". Sourcing a replacement battery is a challenge.
- newsclues 2y ago
  Cars are pretty safe from spontaneous combustion but if you do stupid stuff like lighting it on fire then bad things happen. You can’t make technology 100% safe, you need to educate people.
prmoustache 2y ago
They got me until I read about a smartphone app. Also, how can they get testimonies from customers when it hasn't launched yet? Sounds like a scam.
- monkin 2y ago
  > Proudly powering 1500+ rental bikes Since 2022, Gouach Infinite Battery has powered free-floating fleets in the roughest environments: snow, rain, heat, cold, shocks. Now that we have figured out the perfect battery, we want the public to access it. It doesn't look like a scam to me. What's wrong with the app?
  - krunck 2y ago
    The battery pack's usable life is determined by how long the company offers and maintains the app. I'm willing to bet that the app will not be around for more than 3 years.
    - Zak 2y ago
      That would be solvable by making the app open source, or by publishing the protocol so third parties can make software for it.
      - oulipo 2y ago
        Hi! We might open source it at some point, although the app itself is just a thin client, and most of the code is on the battery and the backend
        Zak 2y ago
        The main concern is confidence that the product will remain usable even if the company goes out of business or pivots and abandons this product. Being a thin client is great from that perspective because there's little incentive to keep it proprietary, and it should be easy for a third party to maintain if the company abandons it.
yourusername 2y ago
I wonder what happens when you do things you're not supposed to. Like when some of my expensive 3000 mAh samsung cells are worn out i'll replace them with the cheapest aliexpress "10 000 mAh" (actually 1500) cells in the same series. Or i'll mix LifePo4 with Li-Poly cells.
- mulletbum 2y ago
  What stops you from doing that in any battery operated device?
  - fuzzfactor 2y ago
    The cells are welded together in ordinary ebike packs. The packs are basically designed to be disposable as a unit, even if some shops can replace those cells for you.
  - yourusername 2y ago
    There is a barrier to entry with repairing current battery packs. Someone that opens up a sealed battery pack and buys nickel strips and a spotwelder to repair a battery pack probably knows the things you're not supposed to do.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
constantcrying 2y ago
Very dubious website. The battery doesn't appear to be available for purchase, so who is this customer who, in 2022, has been using it for an entire year? The marketing claims also are ridiculous. Zero evidence that your battery are safer than Bosch battery packs. I have zero doubt that Bosch has done very rigorous testing on their batteries. Have you? Apparently the cells are switchable, so there could be different types, capacity and chemistries involved, have you done testing regarding that?
- BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
  It does seem like their batteries may be available for sale in europe? https://www.daurema-batteries.com/en/products/gouach-batterie-velo-36v-460wh https://www.daurema-batteries.com/en/products/gouach-batteri... And this twitter post is from early 2022 https://twitter.com/Gouachbatteries/status/1514989287141486594 https://twitter.com/Gouachbatteries/status/15149892871414865...
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    The alleged customer talks specifically about the "infinite Battery", which is promoted on that website. Neither the Battery on the shop nor in the Tweet are that Battery, the "infinite Battery" is clearly a different product and clearly not a product you can buy right now. If the "infinite Battery" is "launching soon", why was it available to "People" in 2021. Another comment mentioned that in 2023 he replaced the Cells, the same website claims the cells need to be replaced every 3 years, so when did "Victor B." receive his Battery? I see no way in which these comments are from real people who bought that Battery with their own money and are giving their own thoughts on the product. "Fake endorsements" are a very common tactic on scam sites, even including them makes me not to want to buy anything from such a website. This is also ignoring their fire safety claims, which I think are very dubious. Specifically because they mention a particular rival brand, which they claim is significantly more dangerous than theirs. With no evidence substantiating that.
    - BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
nickspacek 2y ago
Here's some more information I found linked through the reservation process: https://docs.gouach.com/ https://docs.gouach.com/
- oulipo 2y ago
  Yes indeed! This is our documentation! Happy to give you more info if needed at contact@gouach.com!
aziaziazi 2y ago
> compatible with all major brands How does the compatibility work ? For my experience as an e bike mecanist, most of the brand have their own plug (with different number of pins). Event for those that use the standard shimano/bosch/bafang there is a new plug every two years. This plug market make me think of the mobile phone in 2000’s.
- dncornholio 2y ago
  They make you undo the plugs and connect the wires from the motor to their battery mount.
  - Gigachad 2y ago
    I wonder how they managed that. My understanding was it was all computerised, proprietary, and DRMed.
- criddell 2y ago
  I was wondering that too. Trek, for example, has the batteries in a compartment that is part of the bike. What happens in that case? And since you work on this stuff let me ask you: who makes the Toyota Camry of ebikes? In other words, who makes the it-just-works-and-its-fine ebike for people who don't really care about ebikes? I've thought about getting one for commuting to work but every time I've started to look I get decision fatigue and give up for another year.
  - bambax 2y ago
    Building your own ebike with a Bafang motor and an ordinary bike you have lying around (or a used one you buy specifically for that purpose) is easy and cheap, and works very, very well. It's true that ordinary Chinese battery packs don't last much more than three years though. (Edit for the downvote: I have built three of those already for myself, plus a couple of others for friends, never had any problem whatsoever. Transformation takes less than two hours.)
    - deleted 2y ago
aetherspawn 2y ago
Oh boy, watching the assembly video… don’t put the batteries in the wrong way around! Boom! The layout is not obvious so I wonder how they control for that.
- mulletbum 2y ago
  The same way every other battery replaceable product controls for it, they write it on the housing.
  - vallettea 2y ago
    yes but there is a fuse per cell so even updisde down there is no fire hasard: https://docs.gouach.com/eco-designed-batteries/additional-benefits-of-the-gouach-approach#1bc2d10834344a9ba428a1dd0a451637 https://docs.gouach.com/eco-designed-batteries/additional-be...
  - aetherspawn 2y ago
    The polarity of the 18650 cells themselves is not that obvious either. Each manufacturer marks their cells differently or not at all. Many cells are flat on both sides and do not have a "nipple" indicating the positive side. The fuse solution mentioned here by the manufacturer sounds like a good solution.
- oulipo 2y ago
  Hi! Thanks for your comment! We have thought a lot about safety, and the battery is designed to make it hard to assemble the wrong way, and we obviously have safety features (fuse) which would prevent any damage if cells were put the wrong way
holoduke 2y ago
I once build a 8s20p battery for a drone using nickelstrips and a spotwelder. At one point the battery looked exactly the same as the one in this article. I made a dumb mistake by letting my scissors fall on the exposed battery cells. Causing a huge spark and flames with black plumes covering my whole 100m3 garage in black ash and other crap. Always have a metal case, and fire blankets nearby.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kibwen 2y ago
Speaking as someone who's extremely tempted to build his own e-bike from scratch, and also as someone who adores the idea of user-repairable hardware components, the battery of my e-bike is the one and only component that I do not trust to build myself. As much as possible, I want a tested and certified battery from a known, respected, susceptible-to-lawsuits manufacturer. The peace of not worrying that my battery is going to catch fire and explode while charging overnight is worth it.
- oulipo 2y ago
  We will also provide batteries that are pre-built in our factories Building it yourself is only an option This is convenient for bike shops mostly
dzhiurgis 2y ago
This is great. Always thought ebike batteries should be more or less standardised (i.e. shark kinda does it but it's only on low end bikes). The other one is charging limits. EU/govs should regulate every charger has 80% (for daily use) and 50% (for storage) limit. It's winter here now and ebike is mostly sitting. Keeping it at 100% charge would be quite bad for battery. Hope these guys add charge limit (with added occasional automated "calibration charge" to 100%).

71 points by oulipo 2y ago

The Infinite Battery is made to be repairable and refillable: It's launching as a Kickstarter in September (disclaimer: I'm affiliated), and there is an offer for early-backers here https://get.gouach.com/2 https://get.gouach.com/2 for a 33% discount on the shipping price! - refillable in 5 minutes (put new cells every 3 years, costs $48 instead of buying a new battery) - change the electronics easily - connected (sends data and safety alerts) - FIREPROOF casing! there's been waaaaaay too many lithium fires! The battery has already been produced for 1500 bikes running in shared mobility for multiple years in France! Don't forget to register on the pre-launch if you want to have a discount on the price when we launch in September! ($330 instead of $450)

cinntaile 2y ago
You don't mention the battery chemistry on the website. What is it?
- datavirtue 2y ago
  Whatever type you buy to replace the cells.
- cl3misch 2y ago
  The cells are standard 18650 cells with according chemistry. You are supposed to supply them yourself! (maybe not initially, but they emphasize multiple times that you can/should change the cells inside the pack every three years)
- fuzzfactor 2y ago
  I'm a chemical guy but that's not really a question to me. Looks like it's supposed to be the same kind of cells as "90%" of all other ebikes. The big difference is that the cells are not welded together like ordinary power packs are, allowing for straightforward exchange of cells individually. Kind of a brilliant engineering design which lots of users should be able to accomplish the task using minimal tools, without having to go to a repair shop for a renewed battery. Plus you could make sure you used only the best cells having an impeccable reputation and highest reliability. The guy is a physics PhD, and for me it's still measurement & testing 24/7, so I would wonder what kind of test equipment he has at his disposal, or maybe has his own lab without relying on outside facilities, if any. I'm no battery expert but that would probably give me an idea of what kind of readings I would like to see. It would be great if we could count on a level of technical documentation far in excess of what's out there from the non-PhD-run companies. A possible deficiency that comes to mind is the convenient, but small number of tools that are supposed to be enough for routine maintenance. If it doesn't already exist, maybe there should be a PhD-level cell checker that is affordable for the user also, to go along with the hand tools. Also a final assembly test rig would be good and that would seem to allow a layer of quality control to reach down to the user (re-)assembly process.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    The "physics PhD" is also posting fake reviews on his website...
    - vallettea 2y ago
      which one ?
      - constantcrying 2y ago
        All of them presumably. The first one claims that the customer in 2022 has had used the battery for a year already, meaning he has received it in 2021. He specifically claims that it is the battery which is promoted on that site, which will get a Kickstarter in a few months. Obviously that can not be a genuine review. Fake endorsements are a very common tactic on scam sites, where some snake oil is sold and you have "real people" giving extremely nice quotes about how great the product is.
        dzhiurgis 2y ago
        What's so snake oil about this? This is not claiming something impossible or outside of realm of engineering. It's just a battery case.
        oulipo 2y ago
        Hi! Thanks for your comment! We are a legit company, and we exist for 3 years (we even fundraised: https://www.breega.com/gouach-secures-e3-3m-seed-funding/ https://www.breega.com/gouach-secures-e3-3m-seed-funding/) The battery that we sell on the Kickstarter is our final product (the "v3" of our battery), but we had many initial clients (who came for bike electric conversion in our shop) and B2B customers on our previous prototypes, hence the reviews We just thought we had a product which worked great now that we can open it to the general public, hence the Kickstarter: as we're still a startup, the economic model of the Kickstarter where we get the cash upfront will allow us to build a large batch of batteries for much cheaper
- vallettea 2y ago
  classical NMC cells. In our case DMEGC 32E
chrismartin 2y ago
> FIREPROOF casing! Have you tested this, perhaps by shorting a few unprotected cells in a full pack? Have a video? :) A lithium ion cell in thermal runaway produces a LOT of heat that must go somewhere. An aluminum case would get hot enough to start a fire, even if it doesn't catch fire itself.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  I think the cells will just burn through the cast aluminum. Maybe enough if lifepo4?
  - oulipo 2y ago
    No! We've managed to design the casing such that it can sustain the fire (and exhaust the fumes with vents), check our doc here https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing
- grumple 2y ago
  The casing is fireproof, but that doesn't mean the things around it are fireproof!
  - oulipo 2y ago
    Of course! But at least your house doesn't burn down, the casing contains the fire and dissipates the heat, check our doc here https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing
- vallettea 2y ago
  yes check this out https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing
kotaKat 2y ago
If you’re finding 18650s in bulk so cheap that $48 fills the entire pack, I’d be amazed.
- sbradford26 2y ago
  $48 would require some pretty large order quantities and probably low end cells. https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/featured-products/products/eve-26v-18650 https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/featured-produ... Currently that is the lowest price I can find for a cell at low quantities, that puts it at $62 to fill the pack which is not too far off. Looks like you would need a 33% discount on those cells to get to $48 which is within the realm of possibility if you purchase in large volumes. To get a decent quality samsung cell you are looking at $118 to fill the pack. https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/samsung-30q https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/samsung-30q
  - vallettea 2y ago
    hello, we have selected a few tier 2 cells suppliers after many testing. One of them is DMEGC that had a much better results in terms of performance and impedance spread than Samsung or LG (based on 40k cells)
BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
> a 33% discount on the shipping price 33% of how much? Why is there no price listed anywhere? Saying there's a percentage discount but not saying how much the price will be makes it feel very scammy.
- vallettea 2y ago
  if you move on to the next step you'll see the price (330$) https://get.gouach.com/reservation https://get.gouach.com/reservation
LunaSea 2y ago
Why would they need a Kickstarter if the product already exists?
- oulipo 2y ago
  Hey! The product does exist but the financials to bring it to the market for B2C customers is a bit complicated The kickstarter allows us to get the cash upfront to start the orders
constantcrying 2y ago
Who are the people endorsing your battery pack? Are these real people? Why did they say that in 2022 they have used the "Infinite Battery" already for a year? Your product has not launched yet. >- FIREPROOF casing! there's been waaaaaay too many lithium fires! How do you substantiate that claim. On your website you are claiming that Bosch packs are a fire hazard, what tests have you done which Bosch hasn't. What certifications do your Batteries have which the Bosch ones do not? Specifically since your packs can have various types of cells, how do you make sure that different cell types and chemistries are all safe?
- vallettea 2y ago
  as we manage a lot of batteries in free floating we had fires after some batteries where massacred by users. We worked a lot on the fire issues and if you want to learn more read this: https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing https://docs.gouach.com/fireproof-casing
bambax 2y ago
Where in France? Can one find them somewhere over here? Edit 1 -- Tried to do the reservation using Google Pay, it didn't work. The browser blocks the popup by default. If the popup is manually allowed, it appears entirely blank. Edit 2 -- Tried again. Google Pay did work but said "Your billing details will also be shared with the merchant", which means the CC number is sent to the merchant. Thanks but no thanks.
- oulipo 2y ago
  Thanks for the report! We’re using a third party framework for this pre order site so I’m not sure where the bug comes from I’ll report it!
- vallettea 2y ago
  hello, thanks for this. We had a lot of orders without issues. The process goes through stipe and the only information we get is the name and email adress of the paying customer. tell me if you have any problem: alex@gouach.com

zemzemi 2y ago

The way this is written makes it feel like a scam. I'm left wondering, what's the catch? I wouldn't trust this company, not based on this page anyhow. Seems dodgy.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ramon156 2y ago
It's not new, that's mostly the catch. If this were to be successful, the battery has to be really good quality.
- oulipo 2y ago
  Yes! It’s our third iteration on the design and we’ve fixed all the flaws we’ve been identifying in the last two years We’re really proud of our current product, as we want to bring to market a battery that is more sustainable and hope we will manage it! We did a lot of effort on the engineering and the software quality
oulipo 2y ago
Sorry for the confusion! We are a legit company, we even fundraised 3M two years ago https://www.breega.com/gouach-secures-e3-3m-seed-funding/ https://www.breega.com/gouach-secures-e3-3m-seed-funding/ We are doing this kickstarter as we are now targeting B2C consumers in addition to B2B

jaggs 2y ago

I really don't trust Kickstarter any more. Too many bad stories.

cl3misch 2y ago
This is not Kickstarter? They have a waiting list for 1$ to get 33% off at launch. Their website states the battery packs are already used in rental bikes in France.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  An account on here which claims to be affiliated says "It's launching as a Kickstarter in September (disclaimer: I'm affiliated), and there is an offer for early-backers here https://get.gouach.com/2 https://get.gouach.com/2 for a 33% discount on the shipping price!"
- oulipo 2y ago
  This is our launch page in preparation for a Kickstarter in September The difference with most Kickstarters is that we have ALREADY built the product, so it’s totally de-risked We are using a kickstarter because we are a small startup and we don’t have the funds to buy the materials to build the batteries in advance, so the economics of the kickstarter (people pay us upfront) makes it possible for us to build a large batch at a lower cost! Feel free to ask us any additional questions you might have at contact@gouach.com

timonoko 2y ago

I tried to figure out what this is about. Lead-acid battery perhaps, only needs some water sometimes. Those batteries suck, because 1)lead and 2)acid. Also there was a generation of cheap Chinese lead-acid E-bikes already and they did catch fire, mostly because of dodgy wiring.

prmoustache 2y ago
Looking at the video it looks like 18650 batteries in a casing that allow them to be replaced without any soldering by just putting them in slots like you do on consumer devices with AA or AAA batteries.
- martini333 2y ago
  Most consumer devices do not take 40 cells. Letting average joe play with 40+ amps of current at 48 volts is not a great idea.
  - Zak 2y ago
    The design of this pack seems to make it very easy to get right. Right means that the cells must be installed in the correct orientation, must all be the same make, model, and age, and must meet the continuous discharge rate requirement for the application. I'm sure someone will find a way to get it wrong, but people also find ways to mishandle fuel for internal combustion vehicles with predictable consequences. The accident rate doesn't need to be zero for this to be a good idea.
    - vallettea 2y ago
      in cas the user puts it in the wrong direction, there is cell level fusing: https://docs.gouach.com/eco-designed-batteries/additional-benefits-of-the-gouach-approach#1bc2d10834344a9ba428a1dd0a451637 https://docs.gouach.com/eco-designed-batteries/additional-be...
- fuzzfactor 2y ago
  Actual soldering was determined to be unsuitable way back with Ni-Cd rechargeable/disposables because solder just isn't quite a good enough conductor of electricity for the duty. Plus when current is flowing, where more resistance is encountered will be the places where more heat needs to be dissipated, and solder melts too easily. Which is why they factory-welded them at instantaneous temperatures beyond the melting point of the interconnection itself.

chrismartin 2y ago

Great idea. Is the companion app open-source and free of tracking/surveillance? Does it work with no internet connectivity? Is the BMS communication protocol open, so one could write their own client for it? How about the BMS firmware itself? How do you handle the user installing un-balanced cells in parallel to each other?

oulipo 2y ago
The app is not open source but we could, as it is mostly a thin client Most of the code is on the BMS and backend We are having a reflection on open sourcing the BMS code The BMS protocol will definitely be open sources at some point! We love open soirce

yonisto 2y ago

I need something like that for my Makita power tools

mulletbum 2y ago
Why? The main point of this is that E-bike batteries are a dime a dozen, built poorly, and hard to replace. Your Makita or better yet a Ryobi, uses their very specific battery that can be used in 50 different tools. The only real thing saved by making it replaceable like this would maybe be the plastic housing around the battery. Considering their batteries have all batteries under one shielding etc. there is less waste by doing it they way they already are as their batteries are universal to a bunch of their tools.

svenfaw 2y ago

Sounds real interesting to me - and I don't even have a bike (yet)! Wish you the very best.

oulipo 2y ago
Thanks for your comment! We started this project because we love bikes and we really want to reduce the battery waste! We hope we will manage to bring it to the greatest number!

voidUpdate 2y ago

While the case may be fireproof, is it still fireproof when someone is poking around the battery contacts with a metal screwdriver? Also do you have to carry around a full set of replacement cells so you can "Never be stuck with a dead battery again"?

linsomniac 2y ago
I take "never be stuck with a dead battery" to mean: You can replace individual failing cells rather than having to buy a whole new pack. By "dead" they mean "unable to be recharged". As opposed to "dead" meaning a "flat" pack that needs to be recharged.
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  It feels a little weird to word it like that, if I say "dead battery" or "my phone is dead", I would almost certainly mean "it is out of charge" not "it is unable to be charged"
tantalor 2y ago
Stuck in the sense of "your battery doesn't hold a charge anymore". Sourcing a replacement battery is a challenge.
newsclues 2y ago
Cars are pretty safe from spontaneous combustion but if you do stupid stuff like lighting it on fire then bad things happen. You can’t make technology 100% safe, you need to educate people.

prmoustache 2y ago

They got me until I read about a smartphone app. Also, how can they get testimonies from customers when it hasn't launched yet? Sounds like a scam.

monkin 2y ago
> Proudly powering 1500+ rental bikes Since 2022, Gouach Infinite Battery has powered free-floating fleets in the roughest environments: snow, rain, heat, cold, shocks. Now that we have figured out the perfect battery, we want the public to access it. It doesn't look like a scam to me. What's wrong with the app?
- krunck 2y ago
  The battery pack's usable life is determined by how long the company offers and maintains the app. I'm willing to bet that the app will not be around for more than 3 years.
  - Zak 2y ago
    That would be solvable by making the app open source, or by publishing the protocol so third parties can make software for it.
    - oulipo 2y ago
      Hi! We might open source it at some point, although the app itself is just a thin client, and most of the code is on the battery and the backend
      - Zak 2y ago
        The main concern is confidence that the product will remain usable even if the company goes out of business or pivots and abandons this product. Being a thin client is great from that perspective because there's little incentive to keep it proprietary, and it should be easy for a third party to maintain if the company abandons it.

yourusername 2y ago

I wonder what happens when you do things you're not supposed to. Like when some of my expensive 3000 mAh samsung cells are worn out i'll replace them with the cheapest aliexpress "10 000 mAh" (actually 1500) cells in the same series. Or i'll mix LifePo4 with Li-Poly cells.

mulletbum 2y ago
What stops you from doing that in any battery operated device?
- fuzzfactor 2y ago
  The cells are welded together in ordinary ebike packs. The packs are basically designed to be disposable as a unit, even if some shops can replace those cells for you.
- yourusername 2y ago
  There is a barrier to entry with repairing current battery packs. Someone that opens up a sealed battery pack and buys nickel strips and a spotwelder to repair a battery pack probably knows the things you're not supposed to do.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

constantcrying 2y ago

Very dubious website. The battery doesn't appear to be available for purchase, so who is this customer who, in 2022, has been using it for an entire year? The marketing claims also are ridiculous. Zero evidence that your battery are safer than Bosch battery packs. I have zero doubt that Bosch has done very rigorous testing on their batteries. Have you? Apparently the cells are switchable, so there could be different types, capacity and chemistries involved, have you done testing regarding that?

BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
It does seem like their batteries may be available for sale in europe? https://www.daurema-batteries.com/en/products/gouach-batterie-velo-36v-460wh https://www.daurema-batteries.com/en/products/gouach-batteri... And this twitter post is from early 2022 https://twitter.com/Gouachbatteries/status/1514989287141486594 https://twitter.com/Gouachbatteries/status/15149892871414865...
- constantcrying 2y ago
  The alleged customer talks specifically about the "infinite Battery", which is promoted on that website. Neither the Battery on the shop nor in the Tweet are that Battery, the "infinite Battery" is clearly a different product and clearly not a product you can buy right now. If the "infinite Battery" is "launching soon", why was it available to "People" in 2021. Another comment mentioned that in 2023 he replaced the Cells, the same website claims the cells need to be replaced every 3 years, so when did "Victor B." receive his Battery? I see no way in which these comments are from real people who bought that Battery with their own money and are giving their own thoughts on the product. "Fake endorsements" are a very common tactic on scam sites, even including them makes me not to want to buy anything from such a website. This is also ignoring their fire safety claims, which I think are very dubious. Specifically because they mention a particular rival brand, which they claim is significantly more dangerous than theirs. With no evidence substantiating that.
  - BugsJustFindMe 2y ago

nickspacek 2y ago

Here's some more information I found linked through the reservation process: https://docs.gouach.com/ https://docs.gouach.com/

oulipo 2y ago
Yes indeed! This is our documentation! Happy to give you more info if needed at contact@gouach.com!

aziaziazi 2y ago

> compatible with all major brands How does the compatibility work ? For my experience as an e bike mecanist, most of the brand have their own plug (with different number of pins). Event for those that use the standard shimano/bosch/bafang there is a new plug every two years. This plug market make me think of the mobile phone in 2000’s.

dncornholio 2y ago
They make you undo the plugs and connect the wires from the motor to their battery mount.
- Gigachad 2y ago
  I wonder how they managed that. My understanding was it was all computerised, proprietary, and DRMed.
criddell 2y ago
I was wondering that too. Trek, for example, has the batteries in a compartment that is part of the bike. What happens in that case? And since you work on this stuff let me ask you: who makes the Toyota Camry of ebikes? In other words, who makes the it-just-works-and-its-fine ebike for people who don't really care about ebikes? I've thought about getting one for commuting to work but every time I've started to look I get decision fatigue and give up for another year.
- bambax 2y ago
  Building your own ebike with a Bafang motor and an ordinary bike you have lying around (or a used one you buy specifically for that purpose) is easy and cheap, and works very, very well. It's true that ordinary Chinese battery packs don't last much more than three years though. (Edit for the downvote: I have built three of those already for myself, plus a couple of others for friends, never had any problem whatsoever. Transformation takes less than two hours.)
  - deleted 2y ago

aetherspawn 2y ago

Oh boy, watching the assembly video… don’t put the batteries in the wrong way around! Boom! The layout is not obvious so I wonder how they control for that.

mulletbum 2y ago
The same way every other battery replaceable product controls for it, they write it on the housing.
- vallettea 2y ago
  yes but there is a fuse per cell so even updisde down there is no fire hasard: https://docs.gouach.com/eco-designed-batteries/additional-benefits-of-the-gouach-approach#1bc2d10834344a9ba428a1dd0a451637 https://docs.gouach.com/eco-designed-batteries/additional-be...
- aetherspawn 2y ago
  The polarity of the 18650 cells themselves is not that obvious either. Each manufacturer marks their cells differently or not at all. Many cells are flat on both sides and do not have a "nipple" indicating the positive side. The fuse solution mentioned here by the manufacturer sounds like a good solution.
oulipo 2y ago
Hi! Thanks for your comment! We have thought a lot about safety, and the battery is designed to make it hard to assemble the wrong way, and we obviously have safety features (fuse) which would prevent any damage if cells were put the wrong way

holoduke 2y ago

I once build a 8s20p battery for a drone using nickelstrips and a spotwelder. At one point the battery looked exactly the same as the one in this article. I made a dumb mistake by letting my scissors fall on the exposed battery cells. Causing a huge spark and flames with black plumes covering my whole 100m3 garage in black ash and other crap. Always have a metal case, and fire blankets nearby.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

kibwen 2y ago

Speaking as someone who's extremely tempted to build his own e-bike from scratch, and also as someone who adores the idea of user-repairable hardware components, the battery of my e-bike is the one and only component that I do not trust to build myself. As much as possible, I want a tested and certified battery from a known, respected, susceptible-to-lawsuits manufacturer. The peace of not worrying that my battery is going to catch fire and explode while charging overnight is worth it.

oulipo 2y ago
We will also provide batteries that are pre-built in our factories Building it yourself is only an option This is convenient for bike shops mostly

dzhiurgis 2y ago

This is great. Always thought ebike batteries should be more or less standardised (i.e. shark kinda does it but it's only on low end bikes). The other one is charging limits. EU/govs should regulate every charger has 80% (for daily use) and 50% (for storage) limit. It's winter here now and ebike is mostly sitting. Keeping it at 100% charge would be quite bad for battery. Hope these guys add charge limit (with added occasional automated "calibration charge" to 100%).