7 ms·

The main reason why’d never want to live in Poland longterm are the extreme pollution levels. Compared to some other places you can’t even escape it by moving t

The main reason why’d never want to live in Poland longterm are the extreme pollution levels. Compared to some other places you can’t even escape it by moving to the suburbs/etc. The only place worse/as bad in the EU is Northern Italy but at least they have geography as an excuse. It would be a nice place if the Poles stopped burning coal.. * https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2023/sep/20/europes-pollution-divide-see-how-your-area-compares https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2023/...

pkolaczk 2y ago
That depends heavily on the exact place you live. Warsaw has central heating and central natural gas distribution network, so almost no one uses coal or wood here. My air pollution meter shows very low levels of P2.5 and P10 (< 20 p/ug) for the majority of the year. It’s easy to manipulate by using a color scale where perfectly harmless pollution levels are painted red or black. Better map (live) here: https://airly.org/map/pl/ https://airly.org/map/pl/
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  This is hourly/etc. though? The one I posted was the yearly average which I think is a much better way to look at this (maybe monthly would be better though). > < 20 p/ug ~ 20 seems quite high (IMHO) > so almost no one uses coal or wood here Power plants might be the much bigger issue. Coal is still > 60%, of course it has improved massively over the last few years (used to be almost 80% a few years ago). IIRC Poland produces more electricity from coal than all the other EU countries combined besides Germany (who also suck).
  - pzduniak 2y ago
    What you're pointing at is mostly irrelevant - the massive coal / lignite plants are obviously filtering the exhaust through filters according to EU levels. A family member works in the field. The actual air pollution issue stems from small heaters used in houses that haven't been upgraded yet (or people using them improperly / burning trash) - but there's plenty of EU funding going towards replacing them. Many of the remaining users are unfortunately living in poverty and can't even afford the remaining 20-30% of the price + heating afterwards can absolutely become more expensive.
  - ajuc 2y ago
    Nah, it's mostly residential houses heating with coal. In the winter the air quality is shit, in the summer it's pretty much the same as in the rest of EU. Coal powerplants suck cause they produce a lot of CO2, but they don't polute much (because of mandatory filters). It's negligible compared to unfiltered coal heating in millions of homes.
- chewz 2y ago
  Warsaw is surrounded by suburbs and peripheral small towns that have predominantly single family housing which usually have fireplace as secondary heating source and often coal/wood as primary heating source. If you follow for example air quality in Legionowo (one of Warsaw northern suburubs) since November till March the air quality drops at around 6pm until 6am to the levels compared to most industrial parts of Silesia. This pollution spreads over central areas of Warsaw depending on the winds.
  - pkolaczk 2y ago
    Suburbs near Warsaw are almost all connected to the gas network. I have many friends who own a house (and I also own a house at the border of the city) and I know nobody who would heat with coal. However the major problem is that gas is expensive and wood is cheaper. It is enough that one house in the neighborhood is heated by burning wood and everybody can smell it. The situation is also much worse in small villages far from Warsaw.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  What exactly does a "air pollution meter" measure, and how do I get one?
  - pkolaczk 2y ago
    It counts pollution particles in the air by highlighting them with a ray of laser light and counting the reflections. Air cleaners usually come with a device of this kind. Or you can build one yourself by buying the sensor separately (eg. PMS7003) and attaching it to a microcontroller.
sp0ck 2y ago
Depends on Poland location. I moved from Warsaw to coast and my air filter is gathering dust in a basement. Due to natural windy weather here air is extremely clear almost whole year including winter. And 25 degC is considered hot here instead 35 in capitol city ;-)
bitcharmer 2y ago
I'm a Pole. Lived in Warsaw for about 8 years and later moved to London over 10 years ago. The air here stinks unless you're somewhere on a patch of green. Sometimes when I get our of my bedroom and into the hall I can already smell the polluted air in my house. Never had that in Warsaw even though I lived in a more congested area there.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  Where in London are you? I also live in London and never had that.
  - bitcharmer 2y ago
    Greenwich

pkolaczk 2y ago

That depends heavily on the exact place you live. Warsaw has central heating and central natural gas distribution network, so almost no one uses coal or wood here. My air pollution meter shows very low levels of P2.5 and P10 (< 20 p/ug) for the majority of the year. It’s easy to manipulate by using a color scale where perfectly harmless pollution levels are painted red or black. Better map (live) here: https://airly.org/map/pl/ https://airly.org/map/pl/

ffgjgf1 2y ago
This is hourly/etc. though? The one I posted was the yearly average which I think is a much better way to look at this (maybe monthly would be better though). > < 20 p/ug ~ 20 seems quite high (IMHO) > so almost no one uses coal or wood here Power plants might be the much bigger issue. Coal is still > 60%, of course it has improved massively over the last few years (used to be almost 80% a few years ago). IIRC Poland produces more electricity from coal than all the other EU countries combined besides Germany (who also suck).
- pzduniak 2y ago
  What you're pointing at is mostly irrelevant - the massive coal / lignite plants are obviously filtering the exhaust through filters according to EU levels. A family member works in the field. The actual air pollution issue stems from small heaters used in houses that haven't been upgraded yet (or people using them improperly / burning trash) - but there's plenty of EU funding going towards replacing them. Many of the remaining users are unfortunately living in poverty and can't even afford the remaining 20-30% of the price + heating afterwards can absolutely become more expensive.
- ajuc 2y ago
  Nah, it's mostly residential houses heating with coal. In the winter the air quality is shit, in the summer it's pretty much the same as in the rest of EU. Coal powerplants suck cause they produce a lot of CO2, but they don't polute much (because of mandatory filters). It's negligible compared to unfiltered coal heating in millions of homes.
chewz 2y ago
Warsaw is surrounded by suburbs and peripheral small towns that have predominantly single family housing which usually have fireplace as secondary heating source and often coal/wood as primary heating source. If you follow for example air quality in Legionowo (one of Warsaw northern suburubs) since November till March the air quality drops at around 6pm until 6am to the levels compared to most industrial parts of Silesia. This pollution spreads over central areas of Warsaw depending on the winds.
- pkolaczk 2y ago
  Suburbs near Warsaw are almost all connected to the gas network. I have many friends who own a house (and I also own a house at the border of the city) and I know nobody who would heat with coal. However the major problem is that gas is expensive and wood is cheaper. It is enough that one house in the neighborhood is heated by burning wood and everybody can smell it. The situation is also much worse in small villages far from Warsaw.
bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
What exactly does a "air pollution meter" measure, and how do I get one?
- pkolaczk 2y ago
  It counts pollution particles in the air by highlighting them with a ray of laser light and counting the reflections. Air cleaners usually come with a device of this kind. Or you can build one yourself by buying the sensor separately (eg. PMS7003) and attaching it to a microcontroller.

sp0ck 2y ago

Depends on Poland location. I moved from Warsaw to coast and my air filter is gathering dust in a basement. Due to natural windy weather here air is extremely clear almost whole year including winter. And 25 degC is considered hot here instead 35 in capitol city ;-)

bitcharmer 2y ago

I'm a Pole. Lived in Warsaw for about 8 years and later moved to London over 10 years ago. The air here stinks unless you're somewhere on a patch of green. Sometimes when I get our of my bedroom and into the hall I can already smell the polluted air in my house. Never had that in Warsaw even though I lived in a more congested area there.

bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
Where in London are you? I also live in London and never had that.
- bitcharmer 2y ago
  Greenwich