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How is this news? I think it's well known that the new Retina-MBPs have made some hardware-upgradeability sacrifices in exchange for portability.
by nicksergeant 14y ago
How is this news? I think it's well known that the new Retina-MBPs have made some hardware-upgradeability sacrifices in exchange for portability.
- uzero 14y agoMy thoughts exactly. But I do think that if I would put over $2000 to a laptop I wouldn't like the fact that I'm not able to upgrade memory after few years. It's ok with devices like iPad but $2000 laptop is a device that you expect to use a bit longer.
- culturestate 14y agoYou can max it out with 16GB of RAM for an additional $200. I'm not sure I can see myself putting more than that into a laptop during its useful life.
- nicksergeant 14y agoExactly, and although similar statements have been made in the past, I think 16GB shall be sufficient for at least 5 years out.
- ioquatix 14y agoI have a current MBP with both 8GB and 16GB of memory. I found that with 8GB, performance is excellent. With 16GB, I normally have about 6-7GB free - Mac OS X normally uses the rest for a filesystem cache but it doesn't really affect performance that much in my experience. 16GB is going to be enough for quite a while...
- wfarr 14y agoNot to mention, the glaring problem people like to ignore when discussing this is the motherboard in the MBP is only going to support so much memory anyway (would not be surprised if it could only support 16gb), so talking about not being able to upgrade it to 32/64/whatever is common then is kind of moot.
- eli 14y agoSure, but I think the issue is that if you ever want 16GB, you have to buy it now at Apple's price: $200 for an extra 8GB.
- tlianza 14y agoI'm not sure why we keep saying things like this. "X MB/TB of resource Y will be plenty for a while" is almost always something we laugh about 2 years later.
- iuguy 14y agoI have the late 2011 MBP with 16gb of RAM and I maxed out RAM usage earlier today just with Postbox, Steam, a backgrounded 2Gb VM, a large file copy in forklift and chrome. While that's a rare occurence now, I imagine that over time it will become more common.
- raverbashing 14y agoYes Also, the SSD makes you need less memory, since reading from it is so fast So 16Gb will go a long way really.
- uzero 14y agoYes I know but that wasn't the point. The point is that if I now buy the laptop with let's say 8GB because I think I don't need more than that because all I do is code. After 6 months I get assigned to doing work with BIG databases that easily eat 10GB memory. Now I'm stuck with 8GB because it's soldered and even Apple can't upgrade it.
- sneak 14y agoUpgrading the RAM on a new Macbook Pro is a user-serviceable operation. It consists of four steps: 1) Back up data, wipe drive 2) Sell MBP on eBay 3) Buy new MBP with desired amount of RAM 4) Restore data Now stop it. You're buying a Mac because you don't like to waste time dicking around with your computer, remember?
- orangecat 14y agoYou're buying a Mac because you don't like to waste time dicking around with your computer, remember? And I do like to waste time dealing with backups and Craigslist scammers? I'm buying a Mac because I want a Unix workstation with a solid UI. Lots of MacBook Pro owners are not terrified of screwdrivers.
- sneak 14y ago> And I do like to waste time dealing with backups Ha. Best of luck, friend.
- Kerrick 14y agoNo, I'm buying a Mac because I need a UNIX-based operating system that can run the Adobe Creative Suite. My fiancee, who is practically hardware illiterate, just installed brand new RAM and a new SSD into her 4-year-old MacBook. If she had originally purchased it with those upgrades, it would have been $500+ extra at the time of purchase. This week, it cost $150 for the parts on Amazon. User-serviceable operations that don't require completely replacing the computer are important, and will surely affect many people's buying decisions. You don't get to say that everybody who wants a Mac will never want to waste time dicking around with their computer.
- jman1 14y agoMore and more os x and the Mac "platform" is moving towards a becoming a crystal prison. They are still the undisputed leader when it comes to quality hardware. But locking down the os and hardware is not going to he good in the long run. I knew this was. I in that's why I got the 17 inch mbp in feb. figured I can have it last for a few more years as can upgrade the ram an hdd to a ssd giving it more life. If the os becomes restrictive then I can always install Linux or windows on the quality hardware.
- masklinn 14y ago> But locking down the os and hardware is not going to he good in the long run. You do realize all the "new" limitations of the MBP come straight from the MBA right? And that the MBA's been a raging success?
- yuhong 14y agoBut the price is different. Much different.
- masklinn 14y agoSo's the hardware, I'm not sure why that would matter much. Battery is already soldered (basically), nobody cares. Aftermarket RAM upgrades only matter insofar as their historically being way overpriced at Apple, this seems avoided for now on the new MBP ($200 for the 16GB upgrade, Crucial asks for $160 for 2x8GB SODIMM so the markup extreme — least of all on a $2200 machine), the HDD -> SSD upgrade is irrelevant as it's already an SSD and if it's the same as the Air (no reason for it not to be), it's a semi-proprietary caseless and low-profile SSD module... for which there are third-party alternatives (or will be, in case the pinout is incompatible with 2011 Air pinout, which would be surprising)
- yuhong 14y agoThe SSD connector is incompatible unfortunately.
- brudgers 14y ago"after few years" Apple expects consumers to replace hardware every two to three years. Often this is encouraged by their practice of only supporting a single version of their operating system and their practice of making new versions of their operating systems incompatible with hardware more than a few years old. To put it another way, Apple doesn't want you to keep your Macbook for three years because there's no money in that, just support costs.
- ChrisLTD 14y agoMacBook Pros from 2007 (and all Macs with 64 bit Intel processors) will work fine with Mountain Lion.
- justincormack 14y agoAll Macs with 64 bit Intel processors. Not my 64 bit ppc...
- fauigerzigerk 14y agoSure, Apple wants to sell as much as possible. But it's unclear to me if this decision has that effect. Not if many people are like me. Knowing that there are upgrade options makes it easier for me to pay up for an expensive machine. But years later I never actually buy an upgrade because it feels like a waste to put money into a machine that is nearing the end of its useful life anyway. I don't even want to know how much money I have wasted on buying "future proof" hardware. So if anything I have to thank Apple for making this perfectly clear to me and saving me from sinking $2200 into a laptop ;-)
- kamjam 14y agoI was gonna but this and install Windoze on it... not sure i'll bother now and save myself around £1000 on a similar spec Dell (albeit without the slimness and super sharp screen)
- rayiner 14y agoDid anyone upgrade their Mac? Secondary market prices for Mac laptops are insanely high. Over the last several years, I've been buying a new MacBook every year. I buy at $1100 and sell around $800. $300 is less than I spend on coffee.
- masklinn 14y ago> I wouldn't like the fact that I'm not able to upgrade memory after few years. You wouldn't be able to either way, depending on the chipset's hardware limitations. 2010 MBPs won't recognize 16GB RAM for instance.
- campnic 14y agoI'd only read about not being able to replace the HDD, but permanent memory modules? I'd say this is news, since I haven't heard of this situation in any other computer in recent memory. Of course now i read that Mac Airs do the same, so i feel silly. (Edit)
- huxley 14y agoYeah, the Macbook Airs have done that from the very start. Not sure about how widespread it is overall but both Sony's Vaio Custom Z and the ASUS Zenbook Prime have fixed non-upgradeable RAM.
- LinXitoW 14y agoPersonally, while I understand why thinness might be great for some, I don't understand how they can sacrifice essential features(exchangeable components and ports(GigE)) for a few mms or grams on a laptop that is clearly marked "Pro". I'd think that exactly pros would be the ones that would make use of these features the most.
- rayiner 14y agoIt's because Apple realizes that user replaceable components and ports aren't essential features that they make such great laptops. I'm a "pro" in the sense the I do work and coding on my laptop. I haven't used an Ethernet cable in maybe four years. I don't upgrade components, I just buy new machines every year (with the insane secondary market value of MacBooks this isn't even an expensive proposition). I don't want to compromise portability and battery life (remember, a lot of the design techniques to make the machine thinner open up more internal space for battery) for some features I'll rarely I'd ever use.
- ioquatix 14y agoI appreciate the kind of perspective you have, but I own 3 MBP and I use the ethernet about once a year - normally when doing an initial Time Machine backup. Wireless is sufficient for all day to day tasks in my experience. * Finally, if it really is a problem, buy the Thunderbolt to GigE adaptor.
- freehunter 14y agoWell for a pro laptop... my pro laptop (Thinkpad) is hooked into a docking station right now. My external monitor, some USB drives, and ethernet are plugged into the dock. When I undock, I'm going mobile so I don't need an external monitor, USB hard drives, and I can work on wifi. In my ~3000 person office, this is by far the norm. Access to some systems are locked down on an IP address basis, assuming you'll be plugged into the wall that gives a static address. So the point is, it might be called the MacBook Pro, but is it really geared towards professional users? Not even AV professionals anymore, with no Firewire and no disc drive. Finally, if it really is a problem, buy the Thunderbolt to GigE adaptor. You shouldn't have to buy accessories on a $2200 laptop which come standard on even a $200 netbook.
- polshaw 14y agoI struggle to see this as anything but a planned obsolescence, anti-3rd party power grab given the minute additional space required to use a replaceable RAM stick. The SSD is on an add in board, also between the main board and base.
- taligent 14y agoThat minute additional space would have made the ENTIRE laptop thicker. And guess what. 99% of people would trade thinness over ability to use third party RAM.
- polshaw 14y agoUnlikely, as the aforementioned SSD add in exists in the same depth. It is also a 3D space so the idea the whole body would need to be increased by the depth of the ram/connector is overly simplistic. If there were issues, they could have persued engineering solutions (different connector? single sided ram?) that could have maintained upgrade-ability. This is the (top line) pro, not the laptop bought by people who want it because it is silver and has an apple logo. And it is not 'just' third party use, it is no upgrades, ever. So i think plenty of mac pro users would have preferred the imperceivable (<1mm) thickness increase necessary, if it even was. For most here considering this, I imagine it adds $200 on to the cost, because they will feel the need to top up the extra 8gb to future proof themselves. NB +8gb sodimm is ~$50.
- orangecat 14y agoAnd it is not 'just' third party use, it is no upgrades, ever. To be fair, there will probably be (unauthorized) third party SSD replacements, and USB3 allows much more flexibility with external upgrades. I imagine it adds $200 on to the cost, because they will feel the need to top up the extra 8gb to future proof themselves. Yeah. It's also disappointing that the high end model still only has 8GB standard, but that way Apple guarantees that you have to order through them if you want 16. I'll still do it, because by all accounts the display really is that good. It will likely be my last Apple hardware purchase, assuming that in a few years other PC manufacturers have realized that Apple is on to something with their brilliant strategy of making displays better instead of worse.