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What’s incredible to me is the continued cries of innocence from the cyclists that have been flagged by these detection mechanisms. Just like Armstrong after he

What’s incredible to me is the continued cries of innocence from the cyclists that have been flagged by these detection mechanisms. Just like Armstrong after he was accused of doping. It takes a special kind of person to continue to proclaim their innocence so fervently even when presented with irrefutable proof that they’ve cheated.

voidUpdate 2y ago
I think this a lot when I watch videos about speedrun cheating. People provided with evidence that they cheated but often they still deny it
- vintermann 2y ago
  My guess would be that keeping up the public facade that you're not cheating requires a little "self-brainwashing" for lack of a better word, and that you don't get out of that mindset on a dime.
lawn 2y ago
> It takes a special kind of person to continue to proclaim their innocence so fervently even when presented with irrefutable proof that they’ve cheated. Is it? I'd say that everyone has the potential for this weird survivorship behavior where you can't admit the truth for yourself. It's probably related to a deep rooted cognitive dissonance where it's less painful to keep maintaining your innocense than to admit the truth. In the right environment (such as an ultra competitive one where your livelyhood is at stake) most people would rise to the occasion. Just as most people would be able to kill people in a war.
boomboomsubban 2y ago
Not to defend their cheating, but when you saying "I cheated" ends your career and the career of everyone involved with you, it's easy to see why they may dig in. It's not some game for them, this is their livelihood.
- ipython 2y ago
  Right, but wouldn't you be better off by admitting it, then making amends to address it? At least you will be seen as having some shred of integrity. You're banned from the sport for a period of time regardless. IMO continuing to deny the obvious is way worse than addressing it head on and moving forward.
  - nemomarx 2y ago
    are there cases of anyone doing that and being allowed back?
    - ipython 2y ago
      Are there any cases where someone was caught cheating and promptly copped to it? I guess it’s hard to tell if that’s never happened. I’m truly intrigued.
      - boomboomsubban 2y ago
        Yes, for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lorz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lorz They were initially banned for life. Maybe copping to it eventually let their sentence be commuted, hard to say. There's probably more recent ones too, this was posted here recently so was on my mind.
  - boomboomsubban 2y ago
    >Right, but wouldn't you be better off by admitting it, then making amends to address it? No? By denying it there's still a chance you'll get out of it, however tiny that chance is. That chance becomes zero when you admit it. A "shred of integrity" won't pay your trainers mortgage.

voidUpdate 2y ago

I think this a lot when I watch videos about speedrun cheating. People provided with evidence that they cheated but often they still deny it

vintermann 2y ago
My guess would be that keeping up the public facade that you're not cheating requires a little "self-brainwashing" for lack of a better word, and that you don't get out of that mindset on a dime.

lawn 2y ago

> It takes a special kind of person to continue to proclaim their innocence so fervently even when presented with irrefutable proof that they’ve cheated. Is it? I'd say that everyone has the potential for this weird survivorship behavior where you can't admit the truth for yourself. It's probably related to a deep rooted cognitive dissonance where it's less painful to keep maintaining your innocense than to admit the truth. In the right environment (such as an ultra competitive one where your livelyhood is at stake) most people would rise to the occasion. Just as most people would be able to kill people in a war.

boomboomsubban 2y ago

Not to defend their cheating, but when you saying "I cheated" ends your career and the career of everyone involved with you, it's easy to see why they may dig in. It's not some game for them, this is their livelihood.

ipython 2y ago
Right, but wouldn't you be better off by admitting it, then making amends to address it? At least you will be seen as having some shred of integrity. You're banned from the sport for a period of time regardless. IMO continuing to deny the obvious is way worse than addressing it head on and moving forward.
- nemomarx 2y ago
  are there cases of anyone doing that and being allowed back?
  - ipython 2y ago
    Are there any cases where someone was caught cheating and promptly copped to it? I guess it’s hard to tell if that’s never happened. I’m truly intrigued.
    - boomboomsubban 2y ago
      Yes, for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lorz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lorz They were initially banned for life. Maybe copping to it eventually let their sentence be commuted, hard to say. There's probably more recent ones too, this was posted here recently so was on my mind.
- boomboomsubban 2y ago
  >Right, but wouldn't you be better off by admitting it, then making amends to address it? No? By denying it there's still a chance you'll get out of it, however tiny that chance is. That chance becomes zero when you admit it. A "shred of integrity" won't pay your trainers mortgage.