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I think a pivot to energy infrastructure is inevitable. The EV business can be seen as a stepping stone imo to build a strong cash position with all of the rese

I think a pivot to energy infrastructure is inevitable. The EV business can be seen as a stepping stone imo to build a strong cash position with all of the reservations. Sort of like free financing.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> a pivot to energy infrastructure is inevitable What is Tesla's edge in energy infrastructure?
- huntertwo 2y ago
  I think something to do with battery production for grid usage. Combine that capability with renewable energy subsidies and you might have a good next chapter for Tesla until others catch up.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > something to do with battery production for grid usage Tesla isn't a top-ten battery producer [1]. The batteries it does use (and make) are optimised for EVs. [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/19/top-10-battery-producers-in-the-world-2023-provisional-data/ https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/19/top-10-battery-producer...
    - huntertwo 2y ago
      Interesting - however, they do have a financial position that may make it easier for them to pivot than some of the other manufacturers in addition to their consumer image that makes it easy to raise money in the form of EV reservations. They don’t seem to be in a super strong position either way.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > they do have a financial position that may make it easier for them to pivot than some of the other manufacturers Relative to a utility? Or any deep-pocketed investor who can buy Panasonic cells? Tesla is a terrific EV company. They shouldn’t be pivoting away from their roots but reclaiming them.
        huntertwo 2y ago
        Good point - in that case their only edge is their strong consumer brand. Sounds like they’re fucked unless EV picks back up.
        kjksf 2y ago
        Relative to everybody. Megapack is a product they've been perfecting for many years and it's already at least a v3 product. Not only they are not using Panasonic cells in Megapack (those go exclusively to their higher-end cars), if you think all it takes to create a competing product is to have money to buy battery cells then you exemplify "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Megapack is a product with lots of sophisticated electronics that takes serious engineering to develop, it's at least v3 product with years of improvements. You need high-powered voltage conversion, battery management hardware and software so that it doesn't explode etc. Tesla is a clear leader in the field: every major energy project announced, from Australia to California, uses Tesla megapack. I don't hear much about any of the competition. Tesla is leading in scale and expanding rapidly (just finished ramping up first U.S. factory and building another factory in China). Even for Tesla to build another 40 GWh factory which is mostly copy & paste of their existing megapack factor, it's a year long process. If you start with battery cells, you're looking into a multi-year design & testing & initial production for the first megapack-like product and then at least another year to scale your first factory to 40 GWh yearly production. By which time Tesla will have few more factories and v5 of Megapack.
        jeffbee 2y ago
        > every major energy project announced, from Australia to California, uses Tesla megapack I was nodding along to most of your comment but this part is a clear exaggeration. Many of the California BESS projects are using LG systems. For example Morro Bay, Edwards Sanborn, and Moss Landing, which are among the largest on the planet, all used LG, at least for some phases.
    - kjksf 2y ago
      This is a chart of battery CELL production. Megapack (a giant battery pack for grid energy storage) has much more in it than just battery cells. Tesla's Megapack sales are growing rapidly, they just ramped one U.S. factory from 10 GWh to 40 GWh and are building another 40 GWh factory in China. Every few weeks there's another big project announced that will use Megapacks. As far as I know Tesla is a decisive leader in that field but hard to tell because while there is competition, they don't disclose the sales.
- jeffbee 2y ago
  Always a great question with this company. Becoming Panasonic's largest reseller in North America might not be the highest margin business.
- drodio 2y ago
  [flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- xeromal 2y ago
  They own the most fast chargers across America and since EVs are forming around the NACS standard, the country's entire new electric car market will be able to use their chargers.
  - halfmatthalfcat 2y ago
    The fast charging infrastructure that they laid off the entire team? The one that is starting to get competition from companies with decades in the energy distribution business[1]? [1] https://carboncredits.com/bp-grabs-the-opportunity-to-take-over-teslas-supercharging-sites/ https://carboncredits.com/bp-grabs-the-opportunity-to-take-o...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
uberdru 2y ago
Energy infrastructure, a market with massive multiples!

I think a pivot to energy infrastructure is inevitable. The EV business can be seen as a stepping stone imo to build a strong cash position with all of the reservations. Sort of like free financing.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> a pivot to energy infrastructure is inevitable What is Tesla's edge in energy infrastructure?

huntertwo 2y ago
I think something to do with battery production for grid usage. Combine that capability with renewable energy subsidies and you might have a good next chapter for Tesla until others catch up.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > something to do with battery production for grid usage Tesla isn't a top-ten battery producer [1]. The batteries it does use (and make) are optimised for EVs. [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/19/top-10-battery-producers-in-the-world-2023-provisional-data/ https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/19/top-10-battery-producer...
  - huntertwo 2y ago
    Interesting - however, they do have a financial position that may make it easier for them to pivot than some of the other manufacturers in addition to their consumer image that makes it easy to raise money in the form of EV reservations. They don’t seem to be in a super strong position either way.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > they do have a financial position that may make it easier for them to pivot than some of the other manufacturers Relative to a utility? Or any deep-pocketed investor who can buy Panasonic cells? Tesla is a terrific EV company. They shouldn’t be pivoting away from their roots but reclaiming them.
      - huntertwo 2y ago
        Good point - in that case their only edge is their strong consumer brand. Sounds like they’re fucked unless EV picks back up.
      - kjksf 2y ago
        Relative to everybody. Megapack is a product they've been perfecting for many years and it's already at least a v3 product. Not only they are not using Panasonic cells in Megapack (those go exclusively to their higher-end cars), if you think all it takes to create a competing product is to have money to buy battery cells then you exemplify "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Megapack is a product with lots of sophisticated electronics that takes serious engineering to develop, it's at least v3 product with years of improvements. You need high-powered voltage conversion, battery management hardware and software so that it doesn't explode etc. Tesla is a clear leader in the field: every major energy project announced, from Australia to California, uses Tesla megapack. I don't hear much about any of the competition. Tesla is leading in scale and expanding rapidly (just finished ramping up first U.S. factory and building another factory in China). Even for Tesla to build another 40 GWh factory which is mostly copy & paste of their existing megapack factor, it's a year long process. If you start with battery cells, you're looking into a multi-year design & testing & initial production for the first megapack-like product and then at least another year to scale your first factory to 40 GWh yearly production. By which time Tesla will have few more factories and v5 of Megapack.
        jeffbee 2y ago
        > every major energy project announced, from Australia to California, uses Tesla megapack I was nodding along to most of your comment but this part is a clear exaggeration. Many of the California BESS projects are using LG systems. For example Morro Bay, Edwards Sanborn, and Moss Landing, which are among the largest on the planet, all used LG, at least for some phases.
  - kjksf 2y ago
    This is a chart of battery CELL production. Megapack (a giant battery pack for grid energy storage) has much more in it than just battery cells. Tesla's Megapack sales are growing rapidly, they just ramped one U.S. factory from 10 GWh to 40 GWh and are building another 40 GWh factory in China. Every few weeks there's another big project announced that will use Megapacks. As far as I know Tesla is a decisive leader in that field but hard to tell because while there is competition, they don't disclose the sales.
jeffbee 2y ago
Always a great question with this company. Becoming Panasonic's largest reseller in North America might not be the highest margin business.
drodio 2y ago
[flagged]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
xeromal 2y ago
They own the most fast chargers across America and since EVs are forming around the NACS standard, the country's entire new electric car market will be able to use their chargers.
- halfmatthalfcat 2y ago
  The fast charging infrastructure that they laid off the entire team? The one that is starting to get competition from companies with decades in the energy distribution business[1]? [1] https://carboncredits.com/bp-grabs-the-opportunity-to-take-over-teslas-supercharging-sites/ https://carboncredits.com/bp-grabs-the-opportunity-to-take-o...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

uberdru 2y ago

Energy infrastructure, a market with massive multiples!