4 ms·

This makes me wonder what people have to say about fragmentation now ;) To be clear, i don't think it's a problem, i only hate to see those "android (and symbi

by buster 14y ago

This makes me wonder what people have to say about fragmentation now ;) To be clear, i don't think it's a problem, i only hate to see those "android (and symbian and windows and all others) are too fragmented!!!!1", when this is just the way it worked for many years. Of course you'll have fragmentation eventually. Only that the manufacturer with the smallest portfolio has it easier then many manufacturers with many more devices. Fragmentation was not seen as a major problem long before iOS or Android (on Symbian for example.. do you know how many different Symbian versions exist? Nobody cared and nobody complained).

drewcrawford 14y ago
None of these are developer features. I think the claim with iOS being "less fragmented" has to do with developers having a relatively solid set of APIs that they can call. There are a couple of APIs that degrade on older hardware but the number is small enough that a senior developer could write you a list in a job interview.
- buster 14y ago
  Yes, my point just was, that this is one manufacturer with one operating system and a small set of devices. It's always compared with lots of manufacturers and lots of completely different devices. I don't see the problem. Of course, different hardware, different software, but it's so much more devices, it's not fair to compare. A fair comparison would be fragmentation on symbian devices vs fragmentation on android devices (for example).
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    The number of developers giving a damn about Symbian, compared to those who do Android and iOS is probably less by 4 or 5 orders of magnitude, that's why no one is talking about Symbian. We're not living in a dream world, many are trying to be realistic and compare the two most vibrant and important platforms because they have to make a call in their startups: Do I want to develop for iOS, or Android, or both, or first iOS and then Android. Most people on HN are developers and try not to be as stupid as average commenter on Engadget, falling into pointless, grad-scholl-link arguments about whose platform is cooler.
    - buster 14y ago
      You had me at "We're not living in a dream world, many are trying to be realistic". My whole discussion thread is about being realistic. Is it realistic to have exactly one OS version deployed worldwide on hundreds of differenct device models created by dozens of different manufacturers with dozens of different hardware configurations ranging from low-end to high-end? No, it is absolutely not. And so noone should complain about that ghost named "fragmentation" because it's a stupid discussion and it's an unfair comparison.
taligent 14y ago
You have zero understanding about what fragmentation means do you. It has NOTHING to do with user features in the OS. It is all about the ability of developers to target the latest APIs. Even thought iOS6 doesn't support turn by turn on all devices all of the APIs are available e.g. Passbook. Which combined with the high upgrade rate of iOS users means that I can safely target iOS6 for my next app. Contract this with Android where I will for at least the next two years be forced to target Android 2.3 despite whatever new APIs are available in ICS/JB/KLP. Throw in the testing effort (so many device types) and app store piracy makes Android far less appealing for developers.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    (parent killed comment probably due to downvotes) > jesus christ, don't start to cry now.. Ok, so Siri cannot be used by app developers so it's "out of scope" for fragmentation, wow. Other manufacturers decide to open up their APIs, i guess that's the difference then? :) I'm not an iOS developer, but you are absolutely certain that you can use _every_ iOS6 API call available for the iPhone4S and run the same app on the iPhone3GS? Makes me wonder, how that would work. -- No, you can't use those APIs specific to 4S on a 3GS (but they're usually hardware-related). That's fragmentation, and can't be helped. But the reason people don't consider it to be as severe as Android is: 1) Most iPhones sold today are 4S 2) all of them have the same exact screen size (much much more tricky to handle that lack of a certain API in CoreText) 3) these are user features, not developer features, as the parent said. 4) At most, you have to fine-tune your app for 3G S, 4 and 4S. And you usually want to test hardware-related issues (does this app work great on 3G S's 800MHz CPU? Or does it work despite iPod Touch's lack of Compass/GPS?)
    - buster 14y ago
      The people don't consider it as severe, because? Well, because, as i said, android just has a lot more different devices and manufacturers. And that can't be helped either :) Fragmentation in my point of view is just a fact of life and has been there in IT for decades on PCs and even the pre-PC era, so what the hell.. live with it ;) btw. the comment still had 1 point, but i felt it would only lead to a small flamewar. In the end i shouldn't have started the discussion, i guess...

by buster 14y ago

drewcrawford 14y ago

None of these are developer features. I think the claim with iOS being "less fragmented" has to do with developers having a relatively solid set of APIs that they can call. There are a couple of APIs that degrade on older hardware but the number is small enough that a senior developer could write you a list in a job interview.

buster 14y ago
Yes, my point just was, that this is one manufacturer with one operating system and a small set of devices. It's always compared with lots of manufacturers and lots of completely different devices. I don't see the problem. Of course, different hardware, different software, but it's so much more devices, it's not fair to compare. A fair comparison would be fragmentation on symbian devices vs fragmentation on android devices (for example).
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  The number of developers giving a damn about Symbian, compared to those who do Android and iOS is probably less by 4 or 5 orders of magnitude, that's why no one is talking about Symbian. We're not living in a dream world, many are trying to be realistic and compare the two most vibrant and important platforms because they have to make a call in their startups: Do I want to develop for iOS, or Android, or both, or first iOS and then Android. Most people on HN are developers and try not to be as stupid as average commenter on Engadget, falling into pointless, grad-scholl-link arguments about whose platform is cooler.
  - buster 14y ago
    You had me at "We're not living in a dream world, many are trying to be realistic". My whole discussion thread is about being realistic. Is it realistic to have exactly one OS version deployed worldwide on hundreds of differenct device models created by dozens of different manufacturers with dozens of different hardware configurations ranging from low-end to high-end? No, it is absolutely not. And so noone should complain about that ghost named "fragmentation" because it's a stupid discussion and it's an unfair comparison.

taligent 14y ago

You have zero understanding about what fragmentation means do you. It has NOTHING to do with user features in the OS. It is all about the ability of developers to target the latest APIs. Even thought iOS6 doesn't support turn by turn on all devices all of the APIs are available e.g. Passbook. Which combined with the high upgrade rate of iOS users means that I can safely target iOS6 for my next app. Contract this with Android where I will for at least the next two years be forced to target Android 2.3 despite whatever new APIs are available in ICS/JB/KLP. Throw in the testing effort (so many device types) and app store piracy makes Android far less appealing for developers.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  (parent killed comment probably due to downvotes) > jesus christ, don't start to cry now.. Ok, so Siri cannot be used by app developers so it's "out of scope" for fragmentation, wow. Other manufacturers decide to open up their APIs, i guess that's the difference then? :) I'm not an iOS developer, but you are absolutely certain that you can use _every_ iOS6 API call available for the iPhone4S and run the same app on the iPhone3GS? Makes me wonder, how that would work. -- No, you can't use those APIs specific to 4S on a 3GS (but they're usually hardware-related). That's fragmentation, and can't be helped. But the reason people don't consider it to be as severe as Android is: 1) Most iPhones sold today are 4S 2) all of them have the same exact screen size (much much more tricky to handle that lack of a certain API in CoreText) 3) these are user features, not developer features, as the parent said. 4) At most, you have to fine-tune your app for 3G S, 4 and 4S. And you usually want to test hardware-related issues (does this app work great on 3G S's 800MHz CPU? Or does it work despite iPod Touch's lack of Compass/GPS?)
  - buster 14y ago
    The people don't consider it as severe, because? Well, because, as i said, android just has a lot more different devices and manufacturers. And that can't be helped either :) Fragmentation in my point of view is just a fact of life and has been there in IT for decades on PCs and even the pre-PC era, so what the hell.. live with it ;) btw. the comment still had 1 point, but i felt it would only lead to a small flamewar. In the end i shouldn't have started the discussion, i guess...