3 ms·

> It really boggles my mind that there are people who are capable enough to be in the competition and still decide to cheat in order to win. Not because it’s im

> It really boggles my mind that there are people who are capable enough to be in the competition and still decide to cheat in order to win. Not because it’s immoral or dishonourable or anything like that, but just because it’s so fucking lame. If you have devoted your entire life to a particular sport enough to compete and make a living in it, there inevitably will come a time when your ability to compete is not enough, whether that's due to declining ability or increased competition. When faced with the decision of ending a career or cheating, it is not too surprising that people could choose the latter. Of course there are many other reasons for cheating, but I imagine that to be a common motivator.

sctb 2y ago
> When faced with the decision of ending a career or cheating, it is not too surprising that people could choose the latter. I do find it a bit surprising, myself.
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  > I do find it a bit surprising, myself. Ok let me phrase it perhaps in a more relatable way - Your employer asks you to do an unethical or illegal thing. Not doing so will result in you losing your livelihood. Doing so presents a small but measurable risk to you, but you keep your livelihood unless caught, in which case you lose your livelihood anyway. Do you think there is a significant subset of people that take the first choice?
  - sctb 2y ago
    I find it surprising that athletes would choose to make a drastic departure from their prior intentions of fair competition in order to attempt to avoid the inevitability of retirement. I don’t find it nearly as surprising that someone would make a bite-sized compromise in order to preserve their livelihood, even though it seems unwise to me. Sport qua job has a different feel than sport qua sport, as a sibling commenter illuminated.
xanderlewis 2y ago
I imagine that the temptation is more to cheat in order to attain what you ‘ought’ to be able to achieve, given perfect conditions. Considered in that way, it’s no longer about seeking something you don’t deserve by deception and more like trying to avoid random fluctuations that seem like they ‘shouldn’t be part of the competition’. ‘If only I hadn’t torn that ligament a few years ago, I’d probably be very slightly faster. I deserve to win this because I’m naturally better. In a perfect world I’d win. By taking this drug, I can negate the unfortunate circumstances and ensure I live up to my true potential.’, etc. In reality, of course, it’s still plain old cheating. But I imagine it’s fairly easy to rationalise it in your head by thinking along these sort of lines. It’s probably not the same sort of feeling as robbing someone in the street — your morals can remain genuinely intact.
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  Their rationalizations don’t really matter though, only their incentives/motivation, and there are plenty of rational incentives to cheat, so people do - I simply don’t find this surprising. You see it everywhere else this is the case.

sctb 2y ago

> When faced with the decision of ending a career or cheating, it is not too surprising that people could choose the latter. I do find it a bit surprising, myself.

JohnMakin 2y ago
> I do find it a bit surprising, myself. Ok let me phrase it perhaps in a more relatable way - Your employer asks you to do an unethical or illegal thing. Not doing so will result in you losing your livelihood. Doing so presents a small but measurable risk to you, but you keep your livelihood unless caught, in which case you lose your livelihood anyway. Do you think there is a significant subset of people that take the first choice?
- sctb 2y ago
  I find it surprising that athletes would choose to make a drastic departure from their prior intentions of fair competition in order to attempt to avoid the inevitability of retirement. I don’t find it nearly as surprising that someone would make a bite-sized compromise in order to preserve their livelihood, even though it seems unwise to me. Sport qua job has a different feel than sport qua sport, as a sibling commenter illuminated.

xanderlewis 2y ago

I imagine that the temptation is more to cheat in order to attain what you ‘ought’ to be able to achieve, given perfect conditions. Considered in that way, it’s no longer about seeking something you don’t deserve by deception and more like trying to avoid random fluctuations that seem like they ‘shouldn’t be part of the competition’. ‘If only I hadn’t torn that ligament a few years ago, I’d probably be very slightly faster. I deserve to win this because I’m naturally better. In a perfect world I’d win. By taking this drug, I can negate the unfortunate circumstances and ensure I live up to my true potential.’, etc. In reality, of course, it’s still plain old cheating. But I imagine it’s fairly easy to rationalise it in your head by thinking along these sort of lines. It’s probably not the same sort of feeling as robbing someone in the street — your morals can remain genuinely intact.

JohnMakin 2y ago
Their rationalizations don’t really matter though, only their incentives/motivation, and there are plenty of rational incentives to cheat, so people do - I simply don’t find this surprising. You see it everywhere else this is the case.