4 ms·

Think the real problem is innocent people are caught because the PRC does much spying (so does every country), so a few innocent people are falsely accused and

Think the real problem is innocent people are caught because the PRC does much spying (so does every country), so a few innocent people are falsely accused and convicted also. Figure about 10-15% of people are innocent in criminal cases, its just the way the world works sadly.

no_exit 2y ago
> Figure about 10-15% of people are innocent in criminal cases Much higher than that in these particular cases, as noted in an article linked in OP: > A recent white paper by a non-partisan organisation of prominent Chinese Americans in business, government, academia and the arts, examined information on nearly 300 defendants charged under the US Economic Espionage Act (EEA) between 1996 and 2020 [...] found that 27% of presumed Asian American citizens charged under the EEA were not convicted of any crimes. In total, the analysis showed that one in three Asian Americans alleged to have committed espionage may have been falsely accused. And I don't think the feds have had a better record 2020-present.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bilbo0s 2y ago
  If the bar is people who are arrested but "were not convicted of any crimes", then yeah, the number is a whole lot higher for everyone. I'd estimate the 10-15% figure is for the people who are sent to prison. 10-15% of them are likely innocent. (Maybe more for certain demographics if it is easy to convict that demographic of crime.). But the percentage of arrests that do not lead to a conviction is astronomical. To a certain extent, mass arrest and detainment, even of the innocent, is just how the system works. It shouldn't work that way. But it is the reality on the ground right now. Not only that, but it's very hard to change for a lot of reasons.
- thyrsus 2y ago
  Not to mention the innocent folks who calculate that their lives will be least damaged by a plea bargain.
ggm 2y ago
I don't seek to deny the spying happens, but I ask you to put yourself in this situation and see if you feel as charitable to your own government, when it acts against you because of fears of an outside agency. I guarantee you, your reaction will not be "oh, thats ok then, the root cause was these other bad people"
aseipp 2y ago
I'm glad to know that authoritarian policing and throwing innocent citizens in jail under false pretenses is actually the fault of the dirty conniving Chinese. I was getting worried for a minute there, because it almost seemed like we might actually be responsible for our own culture, society, and politics. Whew! I feel much better now that I know it's actually someone else's fault.

no_exit 2y ago

> Figure about 10-15% of people are innocent in criminal cases Much higher than that in these particular cases, as noted in an article linked in OP: > A recent white paper by a non-partisan organisation of prominent Chinese Americans in business, government, academia and the arts, examined information on nearly 300 defendants charged under the US Economic Espionage Act (EEA) between 1996 and 2020 [...] found that 27% of presumed Asian American citizens charged under the EEA were not convicted of any crimes. In total, the analysis showed that one in three Asian Americans alleged to have committed espionage may have been falsely accused. And I don't think the feds have had a better record 2020-present.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bilbo0s 2y ago
If the bar is people who are arrested but "were not convicted of any crimes", then yeah, the number is a whole lot higher for everyone. I'd estimate the 10-15% figure is for the people who are sent to prison. 10-15% of them are likely innocent. (Maybe more for certain demographics if it is easy to convict that demographic of crime.). But the percentage of arrests that do not lead to a conviction is astronomical. To a certain extent, mass arrest and detainment, even of the innocent, is just how the system works. It shouldn't work that way. But it is the reality on the ground right now. Not only that, but it's very hard to change for a lot of reasons.
thyrsus 2y ago
Not to mention the innocent folks who calculate that their lives will be least damaged by a plea bargain.

ggm 2y ago

I don't seek to deny the spying happens, but I ask you to put yourself in this situation and see if you feel as charitable to your own government, when it acts against you because of fears of an outside agency. I guarantee you, your reaction will not be "oh, thats ok then, the root cause was these other bad people"

aseipp 2y ago

I'm glad to know that authoritarian policing and throwing innocent citizens in jail under false pretenses is actually the fault of the dirty conniving Chinese. I was getting worried for a minute there, because it almost seemed like we might actually be responsible for our own culture, society, and politics. Whew! I feel much better now that I know it's actually someone else's fault.