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> It really boggles my mind that there are people who are capable enough to be in the competition and still decide to cheat in order to win. Not because it’s im

> It really boggles my mind that there are people who are capable enough to be in the competition and still decide to cheat in order to win. Not because it’s immoral or dishonourable or anything like that, but just because it’s so fucking lame. If your competition is cheating you are going to lose if you don't cheat. It has nothing to do with honor - it's just about winning. Cheating may be lame but it's a reality. It's not just limited to sports either. In fact I can't think of anywhere I studied/worked where cheaters/liars didn't get ahead (I know multiple cheating students who got into MIT for grad school, and I know multiple abusive liars who were consistently promoted at unicorn startups or FAANG while simultaneously working to get their honest coworkers fired). Such is life.

sctb 2y ago
> If your competition is cheating you are going to lose if you don't cheat. I put that in category #1, which isn't exactly cheating because it doesn't buy you an advantage. Cheating at school or at work is an interesting example. Perhaps by the time cyclists are considering motorizing it's just like... a job? And you have to win to eat?
- sethhochberg 2y ago
  I certainly don't condone cheating in sports but I have to imagine the sponsorship income and general notoriety opportunities are substantially different for someone who can make it into the top 20 or so of their division vs someone who "only" makes the top 100 or 500. Maybe you get into that top 100 and think you're _so close_ to being one of the people who are both elite at the sport and famous/paid generously for doing it, instead of just quietly and honestly elite.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    That's especially true for winning a medal at the Olympics since it's the only event that non-fans can recognize in most sports. You have to know at least a little bit about bike racing to know that the Tour de France is the most prestigious event but everyone recognizes "Olympic gold medal," doesn't even matter what sport. People also get really nationalistic about their nation's winners so it opens a lot of non-sports-related doors back home. It's the kind of victory an athlete can easily parlay into a cushy sales or consultant position where they don't have to work very hard after their athletic career is over.
    - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
      > You have to know at least a little bit about bike racing to know that the Tour de France is the most prestigious event but everyone recognizes "Olympic gold medal," doesn't even matter what sport. This depends a lot on which part of the audience (in particular nationality) you are talking about. I'd say that in Germany (and of course in France) the Tour de France is much more famous for road cycling than the Summer Olympic Games.
      - throwup238 2y ago
        It may be more famous here or there but the point is that everyone recognizes the Olympics, regardless of how tuned into sports they are.

sctb 2y ago

> If your competition is cheating you are going to lose if you don't cheat. I put that in category #1, which isn't exactly cheating because it doesn't buy you an advantage. Cheating at school or at work is an interesting example. Perhaps by the time cyclists are considering motorizing it's just like... a job? And you have to win to eat?

sethhochberg 2y ago
I certainly don't condone cheating in sports but I have to imagine the sponsorship income and general notoriety opportunities are substantially different for someone who can make it into the top 20 or so of their division vs someone who "only" makes the top 100 or 500. Maybe you get into that top 100 and think you're _so close_ to being one of the people who are both elite at the sport and famous/paid generously for doing it, instead of just quietly and honestly elite.
- throwup238 2y ago
  That's especially true for winning a medal at the Olympics since it's the only event that non-fans can recognize in most sports. You have to know at least a little bit about bike racing to know that the Tour de France is the most prestigious event but everyone recognizes "Olympic gold medal," doesn't even matter what sport. People also get really nationalistic about their nation's winners so it opens a lot of non-sports-related doors back home. It's the kind of victory an athlete can easily parlay into a cushy sales or consultant position where they don't have to work very hard after their athletic career is over.
  - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
    > You have to know at least a little bit about bike racing to know that the Tour de France is the most prestigious event but everyone recognizes "Olympic gold medal," doesn't even matter what sport. This depends a lot on which part of the audience (in particular nationality) you are talking about. I'd say that in Germany (and of course in France) the Tour de France is much more famous for road cycling than the Summer Olympic Games.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      It may be more famous here or there but the point is that everyone recognizes the Olympics, regardless of how tuned into sports they are.