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This is false, Pogačar and Vingegaards w/kg is lower than the best juicers in the 90s/00s.

by Saig6 2y ago

loeg 2y ago
Can you put some names and numbers to that?
0x000xca0xfe 2y ago
Do you have sources for that? Some quick searching yields this: "Based on the numbers, Tadej Pogačar has an FTP close to 7w/kg. These are the highest numbers that we’ve ever seen in professional cycling, and what’s even more incredible is that Pogačar is pushing 7w/kg for 40 minutes after four hours of racing." https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de-france/power-analysis-pogacars-power-numbers-are-the-highest-weve-ever-seen-in-professional-cycling/ https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de-fran...
- EA 2y ago
  And it looks like Lance was about 6.97 W/kg in 2004: https://sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-power-estimates/ https://sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-pow...
  - deng 2y ago
    This number is useless without the time he was able to hold that value. Lanterne Rouge has calculated that Pog is about 10% over Pantani and Armstrong when it comes to W/kg over time interval.
    - loeg 2y ago
      In context from GP's source, the claim is for the 2004 Alpe d'Huez climb. This was stage 16 of the 2004 tour. The stage was 15.5 km but only 13.9 of that is the actual climb. Lance's total stage time was 39 minutes, 41 seconds, of which it seems like 37 minutes, 36 seconds was the climb[0]. This is an interval on par with Pogacar's climb, although Lance had less same-day load going into the climb. [0]: https://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/cycling-fastest-times-alpe-dhuez/ https://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/cycling-fastest-t...
cheeze 2y ago
Uh, it isn't? Pog AND Vig both had arguably the best performance of all time on stage 14.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  Comparing raw times isn’t accurate. The technology has improved Massively since Armstrong. Aero, weight, tire design, disc brakes (descending, wet). And the training is just as drastically improved. Nutrition dialed to the individual, seven days/week. Power meters are ubiquitous. No more “go ride 5 hours with your roommate” for a Saturday training ride - it’s all planned all the time. This has all happened since Pog was a small child.
  - deng 2y ago
    Your reasoning is really funny because that's exactly how all the EPO/blood dopers explained their drastically improved performance 20 years ago. Do you seriously believe that Armstrong didn't have individual nutrition and just drove aimlessly 5 hours a day without power meters? You make it sound like he just ate 10 raw eggs with a bottle of red wine before racing like it's 1924. Feel free to believe that nutrition, material, aero etc. will give you a 10% improvement over the most doped people in the history of cycling, especially on the final climb on plateau de beille, with incredible heat, headwind and after four cat1 climbs. Watch how Pogacar casually drives freehandedly, grabbing a bottle while Vingegaard pushes the fastest climb ever recorded, pulverizing Pantani's record, and seriously tell me this is because he had better breakfast.
    - timeon 2y ago
      > Watch how Pogacar casually drives freehandedly, grabbing a bottle while Vingegaard pushes the fastest climb ever recorded This was the moment when I stopped watching. I like Pogačar and there is no way for rider to rebut all the accusations even the rider really is clean. But it doesn't help that he is riding under people who were doping and managing teams with doping scandals.
    - alistairSH 2y ago

This is false, Pogačar and Vingegaards w/kg is lower than the best juicers in the 90s/00s.

by Saig6 2y ago

This is false, Pogačar and Vingegaards w/kg is lower than the best juicers in the 90s/00s.

loeg 2y ago

Can you put some names and numbers to that?

0x000xca0xfe 2y ago

Do you have sources for that? Some quick searching yields this: "Based on the numbers, Tadej Pogačar has an FTP close to 7w/kg. These are the highest numbers that we’ve ever seen in professional cycling, and what’s even more incredible is that Pogačar is pushing 7w/kg for 40 minutes after four hours of racing." https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de-france/power-analysis-pogacars-power-numbers-are-the-highest-weve-ever-seen-in-professional-cycling/ https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de-fran...

EA 2y ago
And it looks like Lance was about 6.97 W/kg in 2004: https://sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-power-estimates/ https://sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-pow...
- deng 2y ago
  This number is useless without the time he was able to hold that value. Lanterne Rouge has calculated that Pog is about 10% over Pantani and Armstrong when it comes to W/kg over time interval.
  - loeg 2y ago
    In context from GP's source, the claim is for the 2004 Alpe d'Huez climb. This was stage 16 of the 2004 tour. The stage was 15.5 km but only 13.9 of that is the actual climb. Lance's total stage time was 39 minutes, 41 seconds, of which it seems like 37 minutes, 36 seconds was the climb[0]. This is an interval on par with Pogacar's climb, although Lance had less same-day load going into the climb. [0]: https://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/cycling-fastest-times-alpe-dhuez/ https://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/cycling-fastest-t...

cheeze 2y ago

Uh, it isn't? Pog AND Vig both had arguably the best performance of all time on stage 14.

alistairSH 2y ago
Comparing raw times isn’t accurate. The technology has improved Massively since Armstrong. Aero, weight, tire design, disc brakes (descending, wet). And the training is just as drastically improved. Nutrition dialed to the individual, seven days/week. Power meters are ubiquitous. No more “go ride 5 hours with your roommate” for a Saturday training ride - it’s all planned all the time. This has all happened since Pog was a small child.
- deng 2y ago
  Your reasoning is really funny because that's exactly how all the EPO/blood dopers explained their drastically improved performance 20 years ago. Do you seriously believe that Armstrong didn't have individual nutrition and just drove aimlessly 5 hours a day without power meters? You make it sound like he just ate 10 raw eggs with a bottle of red wine before racing like it's 1924. Feel free to believe that nutrition, material, aero etc. will give you a 10% improvement over the most doped people in the history of cycling, especially on the final climb on plateau de beille, with incredible heat, headwind and after four cat1 climbs. Watch how Pogacar casually drives freehandedly, grabbing a bottle while Vingegaard pushes the fastest climb ever recorded, pulverizing Pantani's record, and seriously tell me this is because he had better breakfast.
  - timeon 2y ago
    > Watch how Pogacar casually drives freehandedly, grabbing a bottle while Vingegaard pushes the fastest climb ever recorded This was the moment when I stopped watching. I like Pogačar and there is no way for rider to rebut all the accusations even the rider really is clean. But it doesn't help that he is riding under people who were doping and managing teams with doping scandals.
  - alistairSH 2y ago