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I find this debate a bit odd. Climate change is a global issue. So moving these emissions out of Ireland so Ireland can reach it's targets doesn't help if those

I find this debate a bit odd. Climate change is a global issue. So moving these emissions out of Ireland so Ireland can reach it's targets doesn't help if those emissions mearly happen elsewhere in the world. In reality, there is two options either these data centers are simply not built, which isn't going to happen. Or rich countries such as Ireland, take it on to themselves to see taken on datacenters as a burden they must carry, coupled with increased renewables. With Ireland's wind on the west coast potential, this is something we must Especially with a temperant climate Moving the datacenters away from East coast Dublin to West coast. Galway in an ideal world would be also useful.

rakoo 2y ago
> either these data centers are simply not built, which isn't going to happen And this is why we will never solve the climate issue, because we still refuse to even entertain the idea of doing what we must do, what we must have been doing for decades but have refused to so it's going to be harder and harder to quit.
Symbiote 2y ago
Ireland's energy isn't particularly green, compared to nearby countries. The UK, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain and Portugal all have lower carbon emissions from CO₂. https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/IE https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/IE (set to "Yearly" view). Ireland only stopped burning peat for electricity last year!
- vonzepp 2y ago
  Nuclear being illegal in Ireland doesn't help.
  - lawlessone 2y ago
    I'd be ok with it. As long as nobody that's contracted to build housing or apartments here is involved. We'd somehow have meltdown before they laid the foundation.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Considering how things are built in Ireland that's a great thing for the world, trust me.
- dumbo-octopus 2y ago
  > stopped burning peat for electricity Thank goodness – save it for the Whisky!
  - cuSetanta 2y ago
    Pah, good irish Whiskey doesn't need to add dirt to add flavour, leave that to the Scotch!
creer 2y ago
Exactly. Furthermore, the fine article mentions 21% going to datacenters (of which, which fraction might be off-shoreable anyway?), and 18% to homes. Okay, that leaves 61% going to what? Which other industry uses have been going up or down? Then compounded by "If we already had lots of wind and lots of solar, it wouldn’t be a problem", which, as far as datacenters go probably misses the need for storage. What this is seems more of a meme article, linking presumably evil datacenters, with climate change, with "policy of low corporate taxation."
- lawlessone 2y ago
  >Okay, that leaves 61% going to what? Commercial maybe? I used to work in a Lidl and it was mentioned when they started automating their store lights inside and outside to turn off at night that it was taking a large load of the grid. Lot's offices, SME's etc? Warehouses? Not sure if they count as industrial or not.
  - creer 2y ago
    Of course. And metals smelters, and street lighting. Whatever. The point was that the fine article didn't care about that because it was a political hatchet job, rather than informing on how or why electric power is used in Ireland.
sandworm101 2y ago
>> moving these emissions out of Ireland so Ireland can reach it's targets doesn't help if those emissions mearly happen elsewhere They aren't being moved out. This is basic market forces, negotiation between provider and consumer. Ireland would be perfectly happy to host these datacenters should they be carbon neutral, perhaps by constructing their own green energy support system. The datacenters don't want to do that. They want cheap electricity. They want to be simple electricity consumers and thereby outsource any emissions issues to the local grid. Ireland has chosen not to take on that burden. If another country is willing, then so be it. Nobody should engage in a race-to-the-bottom on emissions. If these datacenters want to be in Ireland, they are free to foot the bill.
- gibolt 2y ago
  That is generally how utilities work. More demand == more money, which leads to more power plants / wind / solar to power it. Renewables are the cheapest to add by far, so should be the majority of new generation capacity.
glitchc 2y ago
I think others have already alluded to this, but the source of the electricity is the important bit. A datacenter running entirely on hydroelectricity is significantly greener than one running on coal. Moving the datacenter to a location where the source is as green as possible can have a big impact on emissions.
btbuildem 2y ago
Presumably you'd keep evicting them out of these tax havens until the only option they've got left is to innovate and optimize energy use, or heavily invest into renewable sources that don't have a huge heat/pollution footprint.
atoav 2y ago
Or 3: We need to think more for what those datacenters are used, make our programs more efficient, ...

rakoo 2y ago

> either these data centers are simply not built, which isn't going to happen And this is why we will never solve the climate issue, because we still refuse to even entertain the idea of doing what we must do, what we must have been doing for decades but have refused to so it's going to be harder and harder to quit.

Symbiote 2y ago

Ireland's energy isn't particularly green, compared to nearby countries. The UK, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain and Portugal all have lower carbon emissions from CO₂. https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/IE https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/IE (set to "Yearly" view). Ireland only stopped burning peat for electricity last year!

vonzepp 2y ago
Nuclear being illegal in Ireland doesn't help.
- lawlessone 2y ago
  I'd be ok with it. As long as nobody that's contracted to build housing or apartments here is involved. We'd somehow have meltdown before they laid the foundation.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Considering how things are built in Ireland that's a great thing for the world, trust me.
dumbo-octopus 2y ago
> stopped burning peat for electricity Thank goodness – save it for the Whisky!
- cuSetanta 2y ago
  Pah, good irish Whiskey doesn't need to add dirt to add flavour, leave that to the Scotch!

creer 2y ago

Exactly. Furthermore, the fine article mentions 21% going to datacenters (of which, which fraction might be off-shoreable anyway?), and 18% to homes. Okay, that leaves 61% going to what? Which other industry uses have been going up or down? Then compounded by "If we already had lots of wind and lots of solar, it wouldn’t be a problem", which, as far as datacenters go probably misses the need for storage. What this is seems more of a meme article, linking presumably evil datacenters, with climate change, with "policy of low corporate taxation."

lawlessone 2y ago
>Okay, that leaves 61% going to what? Commercial maybe? I used to work in a Lidl and it was mentioned when they started automating their store lights inside and outside to turn off at night that it was taking a large load of the grid. Lot's offices, SME's etc? Warehouses? Not sure if they count as industrial or not.
- creer 2y ago
  Of course. And metals smelters, and street lighting. Whatever. The point was that the fine article didn't care about that because it was a political hatchet job, rather than informing on how or why electric power is used in Ireland.

sandworm101 2y ago

>> moving these emissions out of Ireland so Ireland can reach it's targets doesn't help if those emissions mearly happen elsewhere They aren't being moved out. This is basic market forces, negotiation between provider and consumer. Ireland would be perfectly happy to host these datacenters should they be carbon neutral, perhaps by constructing their own green energy support system. The datacenters don't want to do that. They want cheap electricity. They want to be simple electricity consumers and thereby outsource any emissions issues to the local grid. Ireland has chosen not to take on that burden. If another country is willing, then so be it. Nobody should engage in a race-to-the-bottom on emissions. If these datacenters want to be in Ireland, they are free to foot the bill.

gibolt 2y ago
That is generally how utilities work. More demand == more money, which leads to more power plants / wind / solar to power it. Renewables are the cheapest to add by far, so should be the majority of new generation capacity.

glitchc 2y ago

I think others have already alluded to this, but the source of the electricity is the important bit. A datacenter running entirely on hydroelectricity is significantly greener than one running on coal. Moving the datacenter to a location where the source is as green as possible can have a big impact on emissions.

btbuildem 2y ago

Presumably you'd keep evicting them out of these tax havens until the only option they've got left is to innovate and optimize energy use, or heavily invest into renewable sources that don't have a huge heat/pollution footprint.

atoav 2y ago

Or 3: We need to think more for what those datacenters are used, make our programs more efficient, ...