6 ms·

Lost by Schoolgirls: A display of 17th century papercuts

93 points by geox 2y ago

webwielder2 2y ago
What's normal to [them], amazes us! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McbdzzqVtDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McbdzzqVtDA
Anotheroneagain 2y ago
It seems the star may have been flattened, at least the version that I know is supposed to be 3D.
- pimlottc 2y ago
  Got a link for making the 3d version?
  - Anotheroneagain 2y ago
    You can find many on youtube,https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZctVLoNMXQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZctVLoNMXQ for example
- gus_massa 2y ago
  It looks similar to one of the origami my daughter used to make. I think it's 2D, but I should ask her.
mensetmanusman 2y ago
I wonder what the cost of these would have been at the time, I’m guessing paper was at least an order of magnitude more expensive and the purchasing power was lower.
- mbsd 2y ago
  You will probably find this interesting https://www.folger.edu/blogs/collation/writing-paper-expensive/ https://www.folger.edu/blogs/collation/writing-paper-expensi... > To put this in perspective, the average laborer making 6-12 pence a day could purchase up to 75 sheets of paper with a day’s wages.
  - Cerium 2y ago
    The Paper Index: Today's minimum wage worker (pre tax) pay can buy about 170 times more paper (about 12k sheets per day).
    - b112 2y ago
      Hmm. I wonder. While I'm sure your math is correct, there are differences outside of the paper itself. For example, we're not going to the general store and buying pieces of paper one at a time from the merchant. "I'll have 17 pieces good sir" We can order bulk from Amazon in the form of a package of 500 sheets for $10, but that paper is also higher and lower quality than the paper from 200 years ago. (Thinner, for one thing..). Of course, buying 500 sheets is part of the whole change in our economy. Mass production enables part of that. It seems, to me, so very hard to equate wage to purchase this way, not just for paper but anything. Even food, the massive change that pesticides, fertilizer, and crop rotation(huge!), safe canning, refrigeration, all these things mean that food costs have plummeted. Even different strains of crops, storage methods, the last century has seen yields increase immensely from the same land.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  It was a boarding school for girls at the time, so for the elite.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  There is an active manual paper mill in Czechia, one of the very last around Europe. Dates back to 1596 AD. You can book a tour around the facility and see people working in all stages of manual paper production. https://www.rpvl.cz/en/ https://www.rpvl.cz/en/ The paper is beautiful (and often used for diplomas etc.), but expensive as heck. A single A4 costs about a dollar.
firewolf34 2y ago
So many different little human trends, crafts, styles... lost to time. Makes you wonder what we're missing.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  From the looks of it, not much.
pvaldes 2y ago
This is one of those histories that feel fake at the first sight. If the title claims that the paper was cut around 1674, I don't see the proofs anywhere. I see again a lack of critical thinking to spot available alternatives that are more logical, or a try to make the history more appealing. This paper seems made by a machine, does not have any fungus on it and is white (after 350 years should be yellow). Chemical processes to keep the paper white and free of fungus attack weren't invented until 1850. The floorboards may have 350 years, but the materials in those photos seem very 20th.
- goosedragons 2y ago
  Paper turns yellow in part due to exposure to sunlight. You can see well preserved 17th century books today that are a similar whiteness and grain, not entirely covered in fugus either. A 20th century work would not have hen spelt as hean. There also appears to be foxing on both the fox and nude figure...
- gus_massa 2y ago
  From the article: > Dr Isabella Rosner, an expert in early modern material culture, identified the paper cuttings at Sutton House which are almost identical to only two other known surviving examples, one of which is a decorative box dating to the 1680s held in a collection at Witney Antiques in Oxfordshire. I was not able to find photos of the box in Google, but it look like they already have similar drawings of the same time.
  - gus_massa 2y ago
    Too late to edit: Since mid nineteen century, most paper is acidic. It's cheaper but it slowly self destroy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidic_paper https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidic_paper Older parer and non acidic paper survives better.
- OJFord 2y ago
  These particular examples are claimed to have been left some time between when the school was created in the second half of the 18th century, and 1891 when it was taken over by 'St John’s Church Institute, which provided skills-training and pastimes for young men from the parish church.' The longer 350 years refers to previous 'almost identical' examples found elsewhere. (Yes 'nearly 350 years ago' is a misleading title.) The National Trust took over the property before the war, discovering and preserving these artefacts during renovation in the 80s. It seems perfectly plausible to me, they just needed to stay dry.
ajb 2y ago
There was a similar one where they found paper aeroplanes in an old schoolhouse, that probably predated actual aeroplanes. Unfortunately the only report is in the Daily Mail, not exactly a reliable source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111963/Schoolboys-100-year-old-paper-planes-pre-date-manned-flight-eaves-chapel.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111963/Schoolboys-...
- OJFord 2y ago
  Aka paper darts though, maybe slightly datedly, and it is striking how the design there resembles a throwing dart, relatively unlike a modern larger and more forward winged paper plane design.
megous 2y ago
There's some interesting bug in HN. I can flag this but I can't hide this story. Hide works for anything else.

93 points by geox 2y ago

What's normal to [them], amazes us! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McbdzzqVtDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McbdzzqVtDA

Anotheroneagain 2y ago

It seems the star may have been flattened, at least the version that I know is supposed to be 3D.

pimlottc 2y ago
Got a link for making the 3d version?
- Anotheroneagain 2y ago
  You can find many on youtube,https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZctVLoNMXQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZctVLoNMXQ for example
gus_massa 2y ago
It looks similar to one of the origami my daughter used to make. I think it's 2D, but I should ask her.

mensetmanusman 2y ago

I wonder what the cost of these would have been at the time, I’m guessing paper was at least an order of magnitude more expensive and the purchasing power was lower.

mbsd 2y ago
You will probably find this interesting https://www.folger.edu/blogs/collation/writing-paper-expensive/ https://www.folger.edu/blogs/collation/writing-paper-expensi... > To put this in perspective, the average laborer making 6-12 pence a day could purchase up to 75 sheets of paper with a day’s wages.
- Cerium 2y ago
  The Paper Index: Today's minimum wage worker (pre tax) pay can buy about 170 times more paper (about 12k sheets per day).
  - b112 2y ago
    Hmm. I wonder. While I'm sure your math is correct, there are differences outside of the paper itself. For example, we're not going to the general store and buying pieces of paper one at a time from the merchant. "I'll have 17 pieces good sir" We can order bulk from Amazon in the form of a package of 500 sheets for $10, but that paper is also higher and lower quality than the paper from 200 years ago. (Thinner, for one thing..). Of course, buying 500 sheets is part of the whole change in our economy. Mass production enables part of that. It seems, to me, so very hard to equate wage to purchase this way, not just for paper but anything. Even food, the massive change that pesticides, fertilizer, and crop rotation(huge!), safe canning, refrigeration, all these things mean that food costs have plummeted. Even different strains of crops, storage methods, the last century has seen yields increase immensely from the same land.
mytailorisrich 2y ago
It was a boarding school for girls at the time, so for the elite.
inglor_cz 2y ago
There is an active manual paper mill in Czechia, one of the very last around Europe. Dates back to 1596 AD. You can book a tour around the facility and see people working in all stages of manual paper production. https://www.rpvl.cz/en/ https://www.rpvl.cz/en/ The paper is beautiful (and often used for diplomas etc.), but expensive as heck. A single A4 costs about a dollar.

firewolf34 2y ago

So many different little human trends, crafts, styles... lost to time. Makes you wonder what we're missing.

bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
From the looks of it, not much.

pvaldes 2y ago

This is one of those histories that feel fake at the first sight. If the title claims that the paper was cut around 1674, I don't see the proofs anywhere. I see again a lack of critical thinking to spot available alternatives that are more logical, or a try to make the history more appealing. This paper seems made by a machine, does not have any fungus on it and is white (after 350 years should be yellow). Chemical processes to keep the paper white and free of fungus attack weren't invented until 1850. The floorboards may have 350 years, but the materials in those photos seem very 20th.

goosedragons 2y ago
Paper turns yellow in part due to exposure to sunlight. You can see well preserved 17th century books today that are a similar whiteness and grain, not entirely covered in fugus either. A 20th century work would not have hen spelt as hean. There also appears to be foxing on both the fox and nude figure...
gus_massa 2y ago
From the article: > Dr Isabella Rosner, an expert in early modern material culture, identified the paper cuttings at Sutton House which are almost identical to only two other known surviving examples, one of which is a decorative box dating to the 1680s held in a collection at Witney Antiques in Oxfordshire. I was not able to find photos of the box in Google, but it look like they already have similar drawings of the same time.
- gus_massa 2y ago
  Too late to edit: Since mid nineteen century, most paper is acidic. It's cheaper but it slowly self destroy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidic_paper https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidic_paper Older parer and non acidic paper survives better.
OJFord 2y ago
These particular examples are claimed to have been left some time between when the school was created in the second half of the 18th century, and 1891 when it was taken over by 'St John’s Church Institute, which provided skills-training and pastimes for young men from the parish church.' The longer 350 years refers to previous 'almost identical' examples found elsewhere. (Yes 'nearly 350 years ago' is a misleading title.) The National Trust took over the property before the war, discovering and preserving these artefacts during renovation in the 80s. It seems perfectly plausible to me, they just needed to stay dry.

ajb 2y ago

There was a similar one where they found paper aeroplanes in an old schoolhouse, that probably predated actual aeroplanes. Unfortunately the only report is in the Daily Mail, not exactly a reliable source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111963/Schoolboys-100-year-old-paper-planes-pre-date-manned-flight-eaves-chapel.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111963/Schoolboys-...

OJFord 2y ago
Aka paper darts though, maybe slightly datedly, and it is striking how the design there resembles a throwing dart, relatively unlike a modern larger and more forward winged paper plane design.

megous 2y ago

There's some interesting bug in HN. I can flag this but I can't hide this story. Hide works for anything else.